Info on 375-06? Anyone have one?

[adcoch1]

I have an old savage 110 in 30-06, and I've been contemplating a rebarrel to make it a better brush gun. 35 whelen was my first thought, then 338-06, and then 375-06. Well, I've found lots of info for the other two, but info on performance of 375-06 is hard to find, so I turn to THR to see about personal experience with these calibers, and opinions on how they compare. Also, the 30-06 in question shoots fine, so I don't have to change it, but a barrel swap would be easy, so....

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[Dr T]

There is some info about this under its other name: .375 Whelen. There is also some information about the improved version: the .375 Hawk.

 

[adcoch1]

Yeah i am looking at some of that, but mostly i am looking for hunting stories on how well they work, or accuracy comparisons, or just how nasty or nice they are to shoot etc.

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[Dr T]

Good luck in your quest. Not enough shoulder for my taste, either on the case or on me.

I have seen ballistics CLAIMED that were similar to a young 375 H&H.

 

[adcoch1]

Thanks Dr T, I've heard claims like that too, but it seems a bit optimistic to me. The shoulder size it the reason i'm not pursuing the 40 whelen, rifle cartridges that headspace on the case mouth worry me...

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[ajd3530]

If you were looking for the most amount of "thump" you could get out of a standard length action, have you considered a the .375 Ruger? I'm not sure how it compares to the 375 Whelen/Whelen Improved, just a thought.

 

[adcoch1]

I am more looking at the most thump i can find in an -06 case. Not looking for crazy pressure loads like the P.O. Ackley stuff either, just big/heavy for caliber loads, and the 375 sized bullet just seems to make sense. I have had several belted mags over the years, and more will be in my future, but I just want to see/hear/decide if the -06 wildcats are worth it, or if i should just load heavy 30-06. I like big diameter bullets, and the rifle I'm looking at rebarreling is not one i want to modify the bolt head in, so 30-06 parent cases are my options for this project.

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[adcoch1]

Oh, btw, this is a brush gun for bear and elk, so short range within 150 yards most of the time...

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[jmr40]

Load the 30-06 with 220 gr Partitions and it'll do anything the others will do. There are several people that have put the theory to the test and proven the 30-06 loaded heavy out performs everything up to 375 mag on both big bears in Alaska and African game.

From a practical perspective you gain nothing but recoil. But if you just want to hunt with something outside the box then go for it. I've owned 338-06 and 35 Whelen in the past. There is no doubt that they work. But after seeing the results of 30-06 loaded heavy in comparison sold both.

If this is the route you want to go I'd look hard at 9.3X62. It is 36 caliber vs 37 and shoots more readily available 286 gr factory loads.

 

[adcoch1]

Load the 30-06 with 220 gr Partitions and it'll do anything the others will do. There are several people that have put the theory to the test and proven the 30-06 loaded heavy out performs everything up to 375 mag on both big bears in Alaska and African game.

From a practical perspective you gain nothing but recoil. But if you just want to hunt with something outside the box then go for it. I've owned 338-06 and 35 Whelen in the past. There is no doubt that they work. But after seeing the results of 30-06 loaded heavy in comparison sold both.

If this is the route you want to go I'd look hard at 9.3X62. It is 36 caliber vs 37 and shoots more readily available 286 gr factory loads.

I am under the impression that an equal weight bullet in a larger diameter would produce less recoil than a smaller bullet would. Is this incorrect, or are the wildcat chamberings only using heavier bullets? 220s in an 30-06 definitely get the job done, but from experience a 338 win mag hits harder. I've been told this is also true of the 35 whelen and the 375-06. I guess there all pretty close though, kinda proves again that 30-06 CAN do it all...

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[Vern Humphrey]

A few words about these cartridges:

Wildcat cartridges formed by necking up an existing case work on the principle of gas expansion ratios. When the powder burns, it generates high-pressure gas, which expands to drive the bullet down the barrel.

Imagine two identical rifles and cartridges, but one with a .30 caliber bore and the other with a .35 caliber bore. The gas expands faster in the larger bore because there is more space for it to expand into. As a gas expands, its pressure drops. So the pressure in the .35 caliber rifle will drop faster.

We don’t want that. We want pressure to stay up as high as possible (within safety limits) for as long as possible. To accomplish that in the .35 caliber bore, we add more powder, and when we do that we add more energy. But be careful about filling the case – extra space is needed to mitigate the initial pressure spike.

That’s what enables a .35 Whelen to drive a 225 grain bullet almost as fast as a .30-06 drives a 180 grain bullet.

But there is a limit to this. The .35 Whelen in underbore – the case won’t hold enough powder to reach maximum performance. Hence the .35 Brown-Whelen. In the 1960s,. C. Norman Brown in Alaska blew out the .30-06 case, taking out almost all the taper, pushing the shoulder forward and making the shoulder much steeper. This both improved ballistic performance and had an effect on accuracy – the steeper shoulder headspaced more precisely.

This explains why cartridges based on the .30-06 necked up to more than .35 caliber should be approached cautiously – the case doesn’t have the volume to justify such a large caliber, and the headspacing becomes iffy.

Probably the BEST balanced cartridge in this series is the .338-06. The bore increase doesn’t exceed the case capacity, and the shoulder is adequate to provide precise headspacing.

If you want to go above that, the best choice is the .35 Brown-Whelen (which I have.) But you will have to fire-form your brass.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I am under the impression that an equal weight bullet in a larger diameter would produce less recoil than a smaller bullet would. Is this incorrect

It is incorrect.

Free recoil is calculated by the formula M1 X V1 = M2 X V2, where M1 is the mass of the ejects (bullet and gas) and V1 is the velocity of the ejecta. M2 is the mass of the gun, and V2 is the resulting recoil velocity.

So if you drive a larger bullet to the SAME velocity, you will get the GREATER recoil.

 

[adcoch1]

It is incorrect.

Free recoil is calculated by the formula M1 X V1 = M2 X V2, where M1 is the mass of the ejects (bullet and gas) and V1 is the velocity of the ejecta. M2 is the mass of the gun, and V2 is the resulting recoil velocity.

So if you drive a larger bullet to the SAME velocity, you will get the GREATER recoil.

So a 220 grain 30 cal will produce less recoil than a 375 cal 220? I can see how more powder would create more recoil, or a heavier projectile would produce more due to more mass, but the larger bore in equal weights should be the same, except for a decrease in pressure according to the above formula wouldn't it? Sorry for the physics questions, but geometry is the math that makes the most sense to me. And that concept of a bigger hole seems to add up to a bigger area to bleed from in the animal i shoot. And i understand that higher velocity makes for a bigger transfer of energy, and that you want to optimize the expansion velocity for your intended projectile design. I appreciate the input though, gives me stuff to think through

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[Vern Humphrey]

So a 220 grain 30 cal will produce less recoil than a 375 cal 220?

No.

I can see how more powder would create more recoil, or a heavier projectile would produce more due to more mass, but the larger bore in equal weights should be the same, except for a decrease in pressure according to the above formula wouldn't it?

Pressure has nothing to do with it. It's mass and velocity -- equal mass, equal velocity -- equal recoil.

 

[adcoch1]

No.

Pressure has nothing to do with it. It's mass and velocity -- equal mass, equal velocity -- equal recoil.

Ok Vern that is how i understand it. I went back and i can see how my earlier comment was confusing. I intended to mean that two equal weighted projectiles would have the same recoil if all other things were equal. I need to read through my questions closer to make sure i am asking what i intend to! Thanks for the input.
So...maybe i just make a heavier brush gun load for the 30-06.

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[Vern Humphrey]

maybe i just make a heavier brush gun load for the 30-06.

Choose your load for the game you're hunting, not for the brush. There is no such thing as a brush-bucking load.

 

[adcoch1]

Heavier bullet weight i mean. I don't believe in shooting through brush.

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[Vern Humphrey]

In earlier times, a heavy bullet for the .30-06 made sense for really big game. Nowadays, there's really little need for anything over 180 grains, and many hunters feel a 165 grain bullet is ideal. I use a 165 grain Nosler Partition Jacket when I use the .30-06 for elk.

 

[adcoch1]

My current preference for 30-06 is 165 Sierra game kings, but i haven't shot an elk with one. Seems like elk disappear when i hunt with my rifle, i only see them while bowhunting. I have had a few close encounters with bears though, which is the main reason i want something hard hitting when in the thick stuff.

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[Corn-Picker]

Can a 30-06 bolt (0.473 rim diameter) be used for a 9.3x62 build? Wikipedia list the 9.3x62 rim diameter as 0.470, and I'm too ignorant to know how much the three thousandths matter... That would be a nice intermediate between the 06 and 375 mags.

 

[adcoch1]

Ive heard that 9.3x62 can easily be used with the mauser style extractors on 30-06 guns, but i would have to try it in my savage to be sure. It looks like it'll work.

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