Info on hard cast bullets

[whm1974]

Ok I reload for .38 SPL using Remitonn 158 gr SWC swaged bullets. They were the cheapist one Midway had, and I'm reloading to save money...

I have two problems with them however. One I have to clean out the seating die a few times while I'm reloading due to the soft lead and lube. The other is after shooting 200 to 300 rounds my gun and hands are filthy.

So I'm thinking once my supple of bullets is used up is switching to hard cast bullets such as from Hunters Supply or Miester.

I'm also thinking of trying a diffencte powder as well. I'm using Bullseye.

-Bill

 

[The Bushmaster]

I'm sorry fellas, but I still will push Remington Bulk Semi jacketed 140 gr Hollow points ahead of W-231 and either CCI500 or WSP. Cheap and one hell of a preformer for .38 Special. especially in 2" to 4" barrels.

 

[whm1974]

I thought about using completly copper covered bullets, but lead is so much cheaper, which is why I'm lookoing at hard cast.

-Bill

 

[fecmech]

whm1974--Lead will never be as clean as jacketed. That said some of the commrecial cast with hard lubes won't gunk up your loading dies. If their cast diameter fits your cylinder throats you should not have any leading(pretty good chance of that in .38/.357) to speak of. The gun is going to get dirty due to the bullet lube, fact of life. If you need clean you will have to shoot jacketed bullets.

 

[BudthePrez]

I load a lot of 38/357 Bullseye loads [8+ lbs a year] Yes Bullseye is dirty I think there is a lot of graphite as part of it.
700X or 231 are much cleaner but I still load mostly Bullseye.
Also the coating on swaged bullest is very easily transfered to everthing like hands, press, seating & crimp dies.
Try one of the good hard cast heads out there there are a lot of them and for general use you should not notice the difference if any from the swaged bullets.
You might also want to look at the ceramic chamber cleaning rods that Brownells sells if you shoot a lot of 38 lenght loads from a 357.
Good luck

 

[Poodleshooter]

Mostly it's the lube that causes that smokey fouling that deposits on your gun and your hands. Powder plays only a part. I had to start casting and lubing my own bullets in order to reduce leading and smokey fouling. My newest efforts have been rewarded in that regard.
Properly sized bullets and a light coating of Alox liquid lube are better in my .38 and .357 than any commercial cast bullet I ever tried. My bullets aren't even that hard-they're softer than most I bought in the past when I scratch test them. However, they fit the chamber throats exactly and are only lightly lubed compared to the heavy rings of hard hi-temp lube present on commercial bullets.
If you don't count your time (IOW you enjoy the process of making your own) casting is the way to go. I only say this because of your mention about saving money in your initial post.

 

[happy old sailor]

i found Laser Cast bullets to be very tough and about the least expensive of the lot. i shove them pretty hard with no leading problem. i also use some of Berry's plated bullets. for real cheap, cast your own using wheel weights and dropping hot bullets into water. can also heat them in the oven and do the water thing. they will be harder but will not stay harder if you plan to make a day of it and store some up. chill them in water and take them right out and spread around, they will be still hot enough to dry themselves. somewhere between 212 and 640 degrees is about right. water boil and lead freeze temps. temps could be a little off, has been years since i did it, but are very close. learning to cast is good. i think casting and reloading go hand in hand and the knowledge and experience may come in handy some day i still have all my casting equipment - lead pot, moulds, sizer dies, etc, plus gobs of small lead ingots. Amend II says we can have guns, but does not mention bullets. if bullets are withdrawn from the market or i get too broke to buy them, i can still shoot, centerfire anyway. yep, powder and primers are rotated through to keep reasonably fresh. all this JMHO YMMV

 

[whm1974]

Well I don't have the time to cast my own bullets. I also don't want to mess with lead in the house.

I am thinking of trying out 231 anyway.

-Bill

 

[LAH]

whm1974 I use a lot of Bullseye and 231. The Winchester powder is cleaner. As for lube, it runs from dirty to very dirty. It's the price you pay so often for bulk packed, hard cast bullets. We not only sell these but shoot a lot of them. I use a 38-158-RNFP and 3.0 grs. of Bullseye in my old K-38. It's dirty and leads a bit but none of this has ever bothered me. I just wipe the ole sixshooter down and wait till the groups fall off before cleaning barrel and cylinder. A good soaking with Hoppe #9, a brass patch and she's ready for another 500 or so.

 

[trickyasafox]

hands up this is a hijack!

what is the difference between hardcasting and regular cast bullets? i've no idea and im still reading my first manuel. . . .

 

[P95Carry]

Lead bullets run from very soft - usually swaged for low velocity use - right up to hard alloyed ''hard cast''.

In between is perhaps a simple 11:1 tin/lead type mix - quite hard and good enough for fairly high speeds - particularly if gas checked.

Top end tho is where antimony creeps into the mix .. up to 4% IIRC, which gives a great increase in hardness.

Wheel weights will do as a start for reasonable hard results.

I endorse a mention of LaserCast bullets - I use these for my .45-70 loads thru BFR ... these are the 405 grain offerings. No significant leading concerns.

 

[whm1974]

Well looks like I need to find a cheap source of jacketed or plated bullets or just live with what I got...

-Bill

 

[ulflyer]

What is the purpose for the lube on the bullets? Other than gunking up the dies or smearing out on the case?

 

[P95Carry]

Lube is there to minimize leading. With no lube at all - even with harder alloys, there is every likelehood that whilst the bullet is engraving on the rifling, it will leave unnecessary lead residue.

Some bullets (some Lee examples) have very much smaller grease grooves and thus hold lesser amounts of lube - these may be less smokey and less gunky in the dies - however - being ''old school'' I am still perfectly content with the big grooves, per my 405's in the pic.

I have recovered bullets which very often still have lube present - makes a good flux when I melt em down again to make more

Lube does not negate this totally in my experience but it does keep it to a sensible level. After shooting leads .... if a bore light is used and then the bore inspected, you can often see a small fillet of lead that builds up on the ''driving side'' of the step, formed by groove and land.

 

[ulflyer]

P95, thanks for the info...makes sense. I shoot 45 and 38 lead reloads and get very little leading..maybe thats why. Of course, I seldom shoot more than a 100 or so at a time...I have the luxury of a backyard handgun range (30 feet) and can shoot whenever I feel like it. And I clean each time.

 

[fecmech]

ulflyer--The theory on the lubes is that it acts as a seal (like a piston ring in an engine) preventing the powder gases from escaping past the bullet and gas cutting the lead. The gases are high temp and high velocity and cut like an acetylene torch and will lead the bore badly and destroy accuracy. If you look at bullets recovered after shooting into snow you can see the tracks of the gas on the base edge of the bullet. As long as the lube holds up the cutting is minimal and does no harm. I don't ever clean the bores on my .38/.357/.45 because I shoot them all the time and there is no more fouling in the bore after 1000 rounds than after 2 or 3 rounds. Properly sized and lubed cast bullets don't lead barrels, that has been my experience in over 35 years of casting and shooting them.