Info on slugs?

[ara]

Would appreciate any info on "old-style" non-sabotted slugs for an 870 Remington smooth bore.

This is my first shotgun and I am looking for a range of load information.

SD/deer with a slug?

HD with #4 or the above?

Help filling the knowledge void will be appreciated.


ara

 

[Bartkowski]

What exactly do you mean by "old style" and what exactly do you want to know?

 

[esmith]

Are you talking about slugs that are already rifled?

 

[john1911]

My 870 really likes the Brenneke KO slugs. Shoots great out to 50 yards. I bought a bunch for $1.99/5. They should work equally well for hunting or HD.

My 870 is set up for home defense. Tube loaded with Federal 00 buck and slugs on the side saddle. Birdshot is for birds.

 

[Titan6]

Slugs are wonderful for SD/ HD. I use them. Slugs might penetrate your walls though which could be good or bad depending upon your situation.#4 buck is a decent load at close range. If your house is small or has no long stretches in it should be fine. At close range it may still penetrate your walls.

 

[ruger_martin_mastermag]

use brenneke slugs

 

[Orr89rocz]

deer with a slug? i used to use federal classics 1 1/4 ounce rifled slugs...one of the more powerful slugs on the market. the other stuff from remington and winchester dont have the starting velocity and power fades quick. the federals start out at 1520 fps advertised and develop alot of knockdown energy. they hurt the shoulder tho.

they shot well too, i never tried anything else for accuracy and never killed a deer with it either.

 

[Fred Fuller]

One more recommendation for Brenneke KOs from here. They've done very well accuracy wise in every smoothbore I have tried them in. Note there is a sabotted version too, be sure you get the 'regular' rifled version- about $2.50 a box of five or so should be the price.

Good for deer hunting, but may be too penetrative for HD depending on your circumstances. Slugs are like little lead Energizer bunnies, they just keep going and going. The #4 buck might work for you, pattern it at your anticipated ranges (the longest distance you have in your home, and shorter, yard by yard) and see. Small shot in #4 I'd be more leery about using for HD, unless you really did have to worry about overpenetration a lot.

Feel free to toss out more questions as needed...

lpl/nc

 

[ara]

Thanks to all.

Bartkowski: I'm taking delivery on my first shotgun in a day or so. I wanted info on a slug and my local gun store said the hot thing nowadays is a rifled barrel and sabots--literally a bullet nestled in a plastic cup, from what I understand. That's not what I want. I want a shotgun for shot with the option of knocking the daylights out of something with a slug if I want. Hence "old style."

There are a zillion unrifled shotguns out there and I know beyond doubt that there are very serviceable slugs available. I just don't know what to ask for.

Esmith mentions slugs that are "already rifled." That baffles me. My brain says barrels are rifled, not ammunition. What's a rifled slug and what makes it perform inside a smooth barrel, or did I misunderstand?

John 1911 and ruger mention Brennekes. I will look them up. That's what I was hoping to hear about.

Titan: I was shown a 12" x 12" piece of 1/4" steel that was supposed to have been hit by a slug. It had a hole clean through it 1-1/8" in diameter. I think that would bring down a deer and I'm sure it would go through a wall if, in fact, that was an honest representation. I'm primarily thinking of when the stuff hits the fan.

Orr89: Federal classics--I'll check into that, too. But again I see the confusing concept of rifled ammunition versus rifled barrels. Wazzup?

Thank you all for sharing your expertise. This is what makes forums so great.

Regards,


ara

 

[ara]

Lee--you responded while I was writing my response above. Thanks for your input as well. I've heard a lot about #4 buck, and that's what I'll likely use indoors (and out?)


ara

 

[Fred Fuller]

ara,

Pattern, pattern, pattern. Pretty much every shotgun barrel performs differently than every other barrel, there is often less of science and more of magic involved in shotgun patterning, it seems.

Decide what you want your gun and load to do at a given range, and experiment with different loads till you find something that does what you want. There are LOTS of different 12 ga. loads, both buckshot and slugs- that versatility potential is what makes the 12 ga. preferable to anything else for close range defense IMHO. You can go from low recoil slugs and buckshot up to standard loads to magnums, and all will pattern/group differently.

And if you run the gamut of available loads without finding something that does what you want, then you get to experiment with hardware- trying a different barrel, or altering the internal geometry of the barrel you have.

But the only way to know what YOUR barrel as it is right now will do at any given range with any given load is to shoot paper with it at that range. The proof is on the paper.

Stay safe,

lpl/nc

 

[kmrcstintn]

shotguns are wonderful tools; very versatile and dependable in many uses and situations; I would hold off putting together a rifled barrel & scope setup for your thumper until you have a few seasons under your belt; you are making a good choice sticking with slugs meant for smoothbore barrels; Winchester, Remington, and Federal make good slugs that has softer lead than Brenneke; this promotes good reliable expansion, but deposits lead like crazy in your barrel; Brennekes are harder due to a higher antimony content and this makes them excellent penetrators and this also helps with lead depositing in your barrel; if you want to advance to saboted slugs and don't want to spend the money on a new barrel, you can get a rifled choke that screws into the muzzle of the barrel; the rifled choke isn't quite as accurate as a fully rifled barrel, but the choke emparts a decent spin that stabilizes the slug better than no spin at all;

I got in over my head and assembled a fully rifled barrel and scope setup, but had problems with the quality of the other barrels used with the shotgun...I traded the shotgun and the problematic barrels and sold the rifled barrel and scope separately...I had a whole stash of Lightfield rifled slugs leftover, so I opted for a rifled choke tube for the used Browning BPS that I got to replace the plagued Remington 870; I can hold a 2 1/2" to 3" group unsupported offhand at 50 yards with a hiviz bead on the barrel rib...not the best, but enough to whack a deer or bear during hunting season; my setup is a backup incase anyone in the hunting party has a weapons malfunction that can't be rectified;

as far as HD buckshot choice...#4 buck is about the minimum for serious use; I live in an apartment and keep a stash of Sellier & Bellot #4 buckshot in the house; my father (who is coming to live with me) and I opt for multiple loaded revolvers in the domicile since the space inside the apartment is cramped with a full length field barrel on the shottie; many feel that birdshot will produce ugle and gruesome wounds, but will underpenetrate and may not nullify the threat; your choice of ammo will depend upon domicle construction, occupants, distance to the next building or proximity of neighbors in the next apartment, ability to place followup shots under repeated firing, etc, etc (if you opt for buckshot, there are reduced recoil loads available)

best of luck and enjoy!

 

[Orr89rocz]

When i say rifled slugs i mean smooth bore slugs that have rifling cut into the lead slug so it spins to stabilize. Sabots dont have rifling and need rifled barrels to spin the slug to stabilize them.

 

[rantingredneck]

I'm also a believer in the Brenneke KO's. They've given excellent service. I've also had good accuracy with the Federal Classics and Remington Sluggers. The Brenneke's have been top notch though and they don't have terribly punishing recoil like some others. For HD buckshot I've settled on Remington Managed Recoil 00 buck. Has done well from my 20 inch IC barrel on my 870. I've not had good results so far with #4's but the jury is still out for me. As Lee said, with whichever load you choose, pattern, pattern, pattern, and pattern some more. Then go practice, practice, practice and practice some more.

 

[kmrcstintn]

just a quick addendum...

due to the amount of projectiles in a load of #4 buck, they do seem to pattern better with at least an improved cylinder and do really well with modified; when I patterned the Sellier & Bellot stuff...I got the tightest pattern from modified and pretty good out of improved cylinder and when I tried full, the pellets were acutally spread out due to too much choke and this caused the shotstring to act eratic when it leaves the muzzle

here's the posting I did after testing the Sellier & Bellot #4 buckshot load...

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=241478&highlight=sellier

I am going to take a few rounds to the hunting camp & pattern the Sellier & Bellot in my BPS using the modified and improved cylinder chokes to see if the results are similar to the test I did with the Remington 870 that went bye-bye

 

[ara]

Lee, kmrc, rant, orr:

Thanks again. I followed your advice and, while my 870 still isn't here, I have purchased an initial assortment of ammunition. This may or may not determine what I may wish to buy more of for further pattern shoots.

I know and understand these quantities to be preliminary I purchased 10 rounds of Remington #4 Buck, 10 very expensive rounds of Hevi.Shot "Dead Coyote" Shot Size T, and 5 rounds of Brenneke KO. I believe that sampling these loads on paper will give me an idea of what'll happen at 10, 25, 50, and 75 yards.

I'll be buying more sample ammo, possibly some of the same. Something less expensive but leaving more lead to clean is an option I'll try, but having a heavy-hitting mass with good impact, penetration, and shape is my first interest.

My local store says they move very little Brenneke. I boght their one box of KO shells and that had a little dust on it. I'm in a town of 7000, too. Maybe that'll just have to be my little secret. =0 )

Nice help. Thanks


ara

 

[Flyrodder]

I use Remington Slugger rifled slugs in my 1187 and 870 with a improved cylinder choke tube(smooth bore) and they are accurate. Don't use sabots in a smooth bore as they need the spin produced by a rifle barrel to stablize them.
My experience with rifled chokes has been that when the slug or sabot hit the rifled part of the choke. it just tightened the choke tighter and I mean TIGHTER. The direction of the rifling causes the sabot to tighten the choke tighter with every shot.