Info Wanted on Model 1862 Police

[DillHarris]

A couple of weeks ago was my first real experience with blackpowder shooting. My father-in-law and I went and shot his Lyman GPR in 50 cal (patch and ball) and his 1851 Navy pistol. Great fun and now I "need" a 54 cal GPR.

Anyway, I was talking about the weekend with my dad last night when he says. "You know what, I've still got that old black powder pistol. You like guns, I should give it to you. It doesn't work though." I was surpised to say the least. I thought he had gotten rid of it long ago. My family is fairly anti-gun. I never figured on getting a firearm from my dad. I'm pretty excited about it.

Long story short, I am now the proud owner of a non-functional black powder pistol. I'm not well informed about black powder firearms. Here's what I do know.
-Model Police 1862 Canna (from the box)
-6.5" barrel
-5-shot
-36 cal.
-Western Arms Corp. Santa Fe, NM
-made by Uberti
-brass trigger guard/grip frame
-the rest is steel
-no top strap
-Serial# 107xxx

My dad bought the gun from my uncle a long time ago. It seems really small compared to my Ruger GP100. It's really slim. My dad says some spring or something broke so the action doesn't work. My plan is to take it to a smith and have it checked out/fixed. Can anyone tell me anything particular to this gun that I should know about. I'm in eastern MO if anyone knows a good smith. Thanks for all the replies.

 

[RobW]

Try to find the book: R. Chicoine "Gunsmithing Guns Of The Old West" at your library. These open top Colts (seems to be a Colt cap and ball replica according to your description) are very simple to disassemble and assemble. With the detailed stripping instruction in the book you should be able to fix it yourself.

No matter what, you HAVE to learn do disassemble and assemble that nice wood and steel piece for cleaning.

Spare-parts for Ubertis are available at www.vtigunparts.com

I warn you! This stuff is addictive!

 

[mcneill]

...now I "need" a 54 cal GPR...

I hear you. I've always thought that if you want something long enough/bad enough it becomes a need.

What RobW said - this stuff is addictive. Sounds like you've already been bitten.

There is also a book "Colt Blackpowder Reproductions and Replicas" by Dennis Adler; Blue Book Publications, Inc.; www.bluebookinc.com
This has a chapter on Shooting and Maintaining Black Powder Pistols. Also has some interesting stuff on the history of the Italian gunmakers (Uberti, Pietta, etc.) entry into the blackpowder business.

Ji

 

[mec]

Those police models were the last of the colt caplock designs.They have the round barrel and creeping loading lever that came out with the 1860 army. It is short cylinder .36 that holds just a bit less powder than the full sized .36 Navy. VTI is a great source for parts and Cimarron also keeps s full supply of uberti parts. - Some fitting necessary but they are usually sold oversized for the purpose. There could be a number of reasons your revolver doesn't work but the most likely is a broken trigger return / Bolt spring. They are easy to replace and the current ones seem to be of better quality than they have been in the past.

Link to assembly/disassembly:
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=41678

 

[DillHarris]

Thanks for all the great info guys. I'll see what I can do myself. Took the barrel and cylinder off this weekend. It seems there are two problems.

1. Trigger only works when pulled forward manually while cocking. Otherwise it won't stay cocked. If locked manually, the trigger works fine. I tested this with the cyclinder off.

2. The cylinder is pretty messed up. I don't know the names of the parts but there is a row of small metal nubs that seem to ride around the outside of the ring from where the action works the cylinder. Some small wear on the cylinder where the action turns it, but the little nubs (which are further outside) are really worn and a couple are 'smashed'. This is keeping the cylinder from rotating properly. It looks like the hammer came down on them, like the hammer went down with everything out of alignment. There is evidence of this on the side of the hammer. I guess a new cyclinder is in order?

I'll be getting the Chicoine book from the library this evening. That with mec's thread on Greybeard and I'll see what I can do. mec, I couldn't view the pictures on your greybeard post, but the directions should be great with the book. Thanks a lot for all the help. I REALLY appreciate it.

DillHarris

edit: the small metal nubs are not the nipples (i know at least that much)

 

[mec]

The trigger thing is almost certainly a broken lower leg of the trigger return/bolt spring. Good news as it is easy to replace. Not good news a few years ago as the parts were almost impossible to find but becauseof Cimarron and VTI , that/s all changed.

The nubs are the safety detents. You can lower the hammer onto them and a notch on the hammer engages and keeps the hammer from getting over onto a cap. It is not uncommon for them to wear completely away and some of the Italian replicas don't even have them. I'm not sure howcome this is interfering with rotation, but you might try making sure the barrel wedge isn't driven in so far as to make the barrel tight against the cylinder.

 

[mhdishere]

I'd have guessed that the "nubs" are the nipples, they will get smashed up if the gun is dry-fired. They're easy to replace though.

 

[DillHarris]

Thanks everyone, a ton. mec, on your graybeard post you mentioned something about the Italian copies having at least one overtorqued screw. Man, you weren't kidding. Think I'll just go ahead and get a new mainspring screw while I'm at it. Got it a bit buggered, but with a bit of swearing it finally came loose.

I got the whole thing disassembled and even put back together. The trigger return/bolt spring was indeed really brittle and cracked. The small extensions from the bolt don't look much better, so I may replace that as well. The arm spring looked to be in good shape though. A lot of crud was in the action, so maybe this was the culprit (gun has sat for maybe 20 years). One of the safety detents was bent and smashed into where the cylinder sits up against the action, preventing a smooth fit. A small bit of filing and the cylinder rotates fine now.

I really appreciate all the help guys. A week ago when I got the gun I thought black powder was that stuff besides salt you put on your food. Now, with your help, a trip to the library, and a few parts from vtigunparts.com, I'm going to be enjoying shooting my dad's gun that I fixed myself.

 

[mec]

extra gratifying-especially the part where I guessed the T/B spring thing. I like being right as it doens't happen all that often