Informal rust test

[briansmithwins]

Just messing around with some different lubes and wanted to see how they perform vs rusting.

Test coupons are parkerized steel clips that were cleaned with hot water and dishwasher soap and then rinsed in 91% isopropyl alcohol. I handled them with clean gloves during and after cleaning.

Taped them to the board and applied lube with fresh cotton swabs. I was trying to get a solid film on the clips but not thick globs, kinda like how you would actually apply lube to a firearm.

I'm spraying the clips with 10% salt water once a day to try to get them to rust faster.

Lubes tested are: CLP, TW25, Aeroshell 7, Miltech-1, 20-50wt motor oil (Mobile 1 of course), and butter. There is also a control set in there too. The list is not in the order the coupons are taped to the board.

Here is day 2, 19Jan09 BSW

21Jan09
All I see is salt residue on the protected area of the clips. The unprotected edges where they were cut is showing some rust. BSW

 

[shevrock]

This is a really cool idea. the only problem i can for see is cross contamination[ i feel so smart being able to say that.] basically for it to be accurate they would have to be seperate when applying the saltwater.

p.s sorry if i come off as a jacka** I'm taking biology and learning about setting up your own experiments at the moment.

 

[briansmithwins]

Ah, but if they were separate when I applied the saltwater, how could I ensure that they all get the same dose?

There isn't enough lube there to move around as there is just a thin film on the steel. BSW

 

[shevrock]

you would have to use a small spray bottle I'd assume. maybe like those small perfume things women always have. I can never figure out where they hide them.

p.s i wasn't arguing btw, just to make sure. you never know someones tone on the internet.

 

[Horsemany]

brian

I've been doing my own corrosion tests for over 5 years and have kept every test to see long term results in my garage. I'd be very interested to see what does best in your test to see if different techniques give different results. Don't throw any test away. I've been surprised how some products that showed a little rust quickly, weren't all that bad long term.

 

[smokey262]

Please make sure to keep us up to date. Curious how butter does

 

[sam700]

I did a test like that a while ago using steel nails. The one clear cut winner was applying a very thin coating of wax. Obviously it wouldn't work very well on moving parts, but parts like the outside of the barrel it protects indefinitely no matter how long the metal stays wet. It does give the metal a bit of a dull finish so I generally only coat the areas of the barrel and action covered by the stock as it is pretty easy to reapply oil to the exposed areas every few days in the field.

I apply bow string wax heated, and then rub it till I have a film of wax. When I'm done you can barely see that the wax is there, but it gives the metal a kind of rubbery feel.

 

[jackdanson]

Good idea!

Please make sure to keep us up to date. Curious how butter does

It may not perform the best, but I'm sure it tastes the best. (ever accidently get some clp in your mouth? ack!)

 

[BigHooter]

bueno idea amigo.. anything there with a little sulfur in the mix? works wonders on diesels (or it did prior to the nature nazi's)

 

[briansmithwins]

New pic up. BSW

 

[rangerruck]

one word in prevent rust prevention, before using your regular lube; EEzox.
for long term rust prevention, in your bags, case, safe, etc., VCI emitter discs.

 

[rangerruck]

there was a dude once, I think maybe here, that used pieces of steel plate, and tested a bunch of diff lubes, and did underwater tests, salt water tests, frozen water tests, all kinds of stuff. The Eezox totally smoked all the others... he had lots of pics.

 

[Horsemany]

rangerruck

Eezox IS impressive in corrosion tests. Unfortunately it is very toxic and uses chemicals soon to be banned. It is also one of the only preservatives of the dozens I have used and tested that will give me a headache. It's great stuff and makes a gun look great. Long term Eezox does NOT protect as well as several other lubes according to my long term tests. BF CLP , Gunslick Gun-Seal, and Corrosion X all provide as good or nearly as good short term protection. Corrosion X is non toxic and smokes Eezox long term.

I have a couple of tests over 1 year old that stay out in the humid garage after the initial weeklong barrage of saltwater testing. Eezox will outperform almost anything in that initial week but.....a year later the Eezox samples are rusted covered and the Corrosion X sample has a couple of flecks just the same as it did after the week of testing a year earlier.

Gunslick Gun Seal will provide the same level of protection as Eezox and doesn't smell like porta-potty cleaner or give me a headache. Corrosion X will protect as well as Eezox, is non-toxic and nearly odorless, and is a better lubricant.

Eezox is one of the most toxic gun products available. If you shoot and clean a lot I'd advise against it.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

personally I would have screwed them all to a piece of wood and once a day gave them a quick dunk in the salt water bath to ensure they got the same amount.

all and all the I wouldn't imagine the differential between them to be so high it'd ruin the tust. the real goal would be in the end see which is the last to rust.

 

[briansmithwins]

personally I would have screwed them all to a piece of wood and once a day gave them a quick dunk in the salt water bath to ensure they got the same amount.

1st: People would complain that the screws contaminate the test coupons and that the lubs would all mix in the salt water.

2nd: I can store a plant mister with salt water in it much easier than a tub big enough to dunk all the samples.

3rd: I didn't think to do it that way...

BSW

 

[rangerruck]

your right about long term, i use eezox, with corrosion x or clp myself, to great results.

 

[Horsemany]

personally I would have screwed them all to a piece of wood and once a day gave them a quick dunk in the salt water bath to ensure they got the same amount.

Hold on there Batman!!! Oil floats on water....ever think of that? Cross contamination of floating oils would be a real threat to that technique. Briansmithwins you did it right. I use a garden sprayer with saltwater solution for the majority of my tests too.

 

[MCMXI]

briansmithwins, DISCLAIMER: the following is not meant to discredit, debunk or diminish your efforts in any way, shape or form. Knowledge is what we're after on this board so with that in mind, here are my comments that you may or may not find useful.

Preventing surface rust is fairly easy, the real trick is preventing crevice corrosion (a problem on firearms for sure) which is much harder to do. Experiments like this don't really provide any useful information since they don't replicate "real world" conditions ... for most end users. Automotive companies may find this kind of study more useful since it's more along the lines of GM9540P or the ASTM B117 test ... both of which are basically CRAP in the real world. I could go on and on about this but I won't. Suffice it to say a thorough experiment would involve the following:

1. Weigh all the clips in grams to four decimal places
2. Bolt the clips together in pairs using nylon nuts and bolts to create a crevice
3. Immerse or spray the clips with CPC of choice
4. Spray the clips ONCE with a 3.15 wt% NaCl solution (seawater)
5. Place the clips in a humid environment between 80% and 90% with the temperature around 25C. (The critical humidity for NaCl is 75% so anything above that will be aggressive)
6. At the end of the experiment, separate the clips, and physically remove any corrosion product
7. Immerse the clips for 20 minutes in a 50% solution if hydrochloric acid (500 mL HCL and 3.5g hexamethylenetetramine, add deionized water to make 1L) at 20C to 25C to remove the remaining corrosion product
8. Weigh the clips again and calculate mass loss followed by corrosion rate in mm/year or grams/m^2/day
9. Repeat steps 7, 8 and 9 until the mass loss between cleanings is the same as the mass loss of the control immersed in the acid solution.

Corrosion Block (ACF50) wood do well in this test.

 

[Horsemany]

1858. How long have you been with the company?(joking)

Simple test and I'm glad Brian shared it. Surface rust is NOT easy IMO for any oil. In fact some oils like Rem Oil will show rust after 1 or 2 applications of 5%saltwater in my testing. That is precisely what I expect gun oil to protect me from. Depending on where you live, travel to, or hunt, it's not always an easy task for any oil.

 

[MCMXI]

Simple test and I'm glad Brian shared it. Surface rust is NOT easy IMO for any oil. In fact some oils like Rem Oil will show rust after 1 or 2 applications of 5%saltwater in my testing.

I'm glad Brian shared it to ... it's interesting stuff. However, I'm not sure what a 5% salt solution is representative of let alone a 10% salt solution? Since you're spraying it on the part you're testing you have surface tension and wetting angle effects to consider. Areas that you can access aren't the problem ... it's areas that you can't access that are the real concern. The pH isn't going to change on the surface of a firearm exposed to salt water, but in the crevices between the barrel and receiver, under the scope bases, inside the action, inside the trigger group, bewteen the stock and the receiver etc. the pH IS going to change. As the substrate begins to pit, an imbalance of H+ irons will lead to a lower pH resulting in more aggressive pitting and round and round it goes. You can't readily flush or wipe away contamination from those areas so this is a BIG problem. It's not just a problem for steel firearms either, it's a problem for stainless steel too. Hydrogen embrittlement may also be a corrosion-related problem here too.

 

[Horsemany]

1858

That's very true. It is not a real world test. But that does not mean the test is invalid. This method of testing will tell you which oil will protect from rust better than the next regardless of what part of the gun.

I travel up to Wisconsin every spring for a weekend long shoot. It's usually rainy or foggy. Even if I can pack my guns away dry, the cases have all absorbed moisture from the air and the guns have to be in there for a day or two until I get back to Nebraska. Properly applied oils have failed to prevent rust in this situation even when applied directly before coming home. And I mean rust on the outside not in the nooks and crannies. THe corrosion test showed me what products worked and what didn't. I haven't had a problem since I started my tests and the eyes were opened. The concentration of saltwater is insignificant. YOu could use straight tapwater(and I have) and it will still tell you what oils protects best across the board. The testing works regardless of where on the gun we are protecting.

 

[briansmithwins]

The reason I used salt was to get results faster. The last time I did this everything took weeks to rust.

It's interesting to me that even with salt exposure the untreated parkerized steel hasn't rusted yet. BSW

 

[MCMXI]

It's interesting to me that even with salt exposure the untreated parkerized steel hasn't rusted yet. BSW

Parkerized finishes are very effective corrosion inhibitors ... not 100% protection under severe conditions but still quite good and better than nothing.


Horsemany, have you ever tried Triflow? We've found that stuff works very well on 1008 steel or similar alloys. Tap water can have chloride concentrations as high as 500 ppm (or higher) depending on where you live and the chloride concentration of the solution that you're using is VERY important since it affects conductivity which directly affects corrosion. A piece of bare steel immersed in pure water (18.1 Mohm-cm) won't corrode at all and steel passivates in alkaline solutions so chloride content is VERY important as is pH. If I were packing a rifle away in a soft case, I'd spray it down with Triflow ... I like that stuff.

 

[Horsemany]

Yes I've tried Tri Flow and it's a better than average rust preventive and it smells good. I have the rust problem under control now after years of tests I learned there's a HUGE difference in how well gun oils stave off rust.

WHat type of work are you doing with all those formal tests? Sounds interesting. What products have you found stand out?

 

[MCMXI]

Yes I've tried Tri Flow and it's a better than average rust preventive and it smells good.

+1 ... and you have mail!