Information on Derringer

[Bill from NJ]

My First post so bare with me please.

I just received a new derringer without any type of instructions.

I am in despirate need of good solid advice here if some one can help me out.

It looks to be a .31 cal, Philippines made, brass, smooth bore, single shot black powder.

Information on box states: "SAM 32".

Pistol looks exactly like the Traditions marketed, Spanish made, Brass framed, .31 cal Vest pocket Derringer.

Questions I need help with:

1) Do I use a lubed patched ball with this pistol?

2) What are the steps to loading this pistol?
Meaning: Do I use a patched round ball or just push a tightly fitted ball into the barrel?

3) Do I use any type of wading after pouring down the powder?
Meaning: Do I have to place a wad over the powder then the round ball? or just seat ball on powder charge?

4) What caliber is this pistol marketed for?
Meaning: What size store bought lead balls do I actually use to shoot?

Any and all help will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards,
Bill from NJ

 

[Chawbaccer]

Im just mostly guessing. Load with about ten grains of 3 or 4f black powder, a patched greased with crisco, I imagine a No 1 or 2 buckshot would make a good ball. Make sure to seat the ball on the powder so there is no air gap. Little ram rods are hard to use so you will likely want to make your own for loading.

 

[arcticap]

Take your pick

The Traditions .31 Derringer looks like it has a smoothbore barrel.

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=P1381


There are several loading options which are dependent on either finding the right patch thickness or loading a bare ball. Since the .005 patches just don't seem to be readily available, that leaves the following loading options for consideration.

1. Track of the Wolf sells .283 hand cast round balls which can be loaded with the .015 pre-lubed Wonder patches that they sell. However, the load would be slightly oversized by .003 which may present slightly more difficulty to load past the muzzle.
A sharp rap with a block of wood or short starter would be required which is not always easy to accomplish while only having 2 hands to balance it without using a loading stand.

Track's Balls:

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(kk...atId=2&subId=25&styleId=58&PageSize=25&Page=1


Track's Patches:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(kk...tId=2&subId=33&styleId=112&PageSize=25&Page=1

If that option is eliminated, that leaves loading with several different choices of bare balls.

2. Track of the Wolf sells both .310 and .311 hand cast round balls. Take your pick, one will be just a little bit tighter to load than the other. Once the barrel gets dirty with burnt powder residue, the bigger ball will become even a little bit tighter. Sometimes tighter shoots better, but sometimes it won't matter at all out of a smoothbore and will only be tougher to load.
But being cast balls, they may not be quite as precisely made as factory swagged round balls are. They may have a sprue, or they may be undersized.
I really don't know.

If that option is eliminated, that leaves 2 other alternatives for factory swagged .310 balls.

3. The Possibles Shoppe sells Hornady .310 balls for $9.50 per hundred.

http://www.possibleshop.com/ball-bullet.htm

4. Dixie Gun Works sells .310 Buffalo Balls for $12.75 per hundred.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_99_311_312&products_id=2206

To make matters just a little more confusing, Track of the Wolf sells .31 caliber vegetable fiber wads. These can be used as over powder wads and would effectively act as a gas check and help to scrape the bore clean with each shot fired. But how well they will fit into your bore and how easy they will be for you to load is unknown. They are made more for the BP cartridge shooter, but some folks do use them in their BP revolver chambers. They cost $12.95 and are only sold in a 1000 pack.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(kk...s/tableList.aspx?catID=2&subID=37&styleID=123

I personally don't mind loads that are a little tight, but then I don't really know the exact size of the bore either. A load that's a little bit tight can help to keep the ball secured in the breech until it's fired.
Which load to proceed with is sort of a quandry.
Why not try 2 or 3 different loads depending on the mood of the gun?

 

[Bill from NJ]

I wish to thank you both for your quick replies.

I "Miked" out the smooth bore brass barrel.
It comes to .330 dia.

After taking your advice I believe I will go with the following.

Lubed Patch: .010
Round Ball: .310
Powder: 3fffg with 7 to 12 grains
Cap: size #11

I sincerely believe this combination should get me up and running.

Again gentlemen, thank you both for all of your excellent suggestions.

You stimulated the old squirrel cage between the ears and have me thinking in the right direction again.

Warm Regards,
Bill from NJ

 

[Donny]

Derringer

Have the same derringer. I load it with1gr of black and 15gr of 777 under a .015 patch with a .315 ball. It will penetrate a 3/4 inch piece of pine at close range. I recommend starting at a lower dose of powder. I use 1gr of fff black to ensure ignition.

Don

 

[Bill from NJ]

Donny,

Thank you for letting me know you have the same piece.

Do you have a manual or information that came with your SAM 32?

Do I understand you correctly, 1 grain of Black powder, mixed with 15 grains of 777?

I will only use straight Black powder.
So, you would use how much straight BP? 7 to 12 grains of BP, right?

Please give me some more info if you can, for example:

Factory B.Powder load recommendations, etc.

Thanks,
Bill from NJ

 

[Donny]

Derringer

I think the manual limited charge to 10 or 12 gr of powder. However, like most charge recommendations they are lawyer driven. In general you can put some extra powder in and still be safe. If you are using real black then 16 or 17 grains would probably be fine. I put the 1 grain of real black down the barrel first then the 777 because with 777 or pyrodex P alone I had trouble igniting the charge. Real black ignites at a lower temp and thus makes ignition more reliable. Go easy at first and don't get crazy and you'll be fine.

Don

 

[Acorn Mush]

Remember too that upon firing, the ball won't be spending much time in that short barrel. My guess is that with a charge of more than 10 grains or so you are wasting powder because there will not be enough time for it to be fully consumed before the ball exits the muzzle.

 

[Bill from NJ]

Again, I thank all of you gentlemen for your kind assistance in helping me.

Warm Regards,
Bill from NJ