Interacting with cops

[Skribs]

As of very recently, I CC when I go out. Which got me wondering, what should I do should I have to talk to a cop? In a situation like if I got pulled over, I wouldn't want to make the cop feel threatened (from what I understand, traffic cops have no idea what to expect when they pull someone over), and I also wouldn't want him to think I'm hiding it.

Along the same lines, should I ever be involved in a shooting, what am I supposed to do once the cops get there? Or will they be issuing me clear enough orders that I won't have to worry about it ahead of time.

I'm from Washington. The state.

 

[InkEd]

Give them your permit with your license and keep your hands clearly visible.

 

[Sky]

Night time traffic stop it is recommended to turn on your interior light and place you hands on the steering wheel. When he/she approaches follow their instructions without rapid movements. Day time same thing only sans light. I have not been stopped but that is my plan.

When the Leo ran your tag it will show you are packing or at least have the license to. Texas or so I have been told.
Just my opinion but it really ain't a big deal unless you are very unlucky and got the Leo who is psychotic or mad at the world that day and anti everyone.

 

[M-Cameron]

and I also wouldn't want him to think I'm hiding it

you are hiding it.......thats the point of CC.


unless you are required to tell an officer by your state/ county........or if its a firearm related issue or you are being detained and they ask if you have any weapons........no one needs to know.

Along the same lines, should I ever be involved in a shooting, what am I supposed to do once the cops get there? Or will they be issuing me clear enough orders that I won't have to worry about it ahead of time.

you put your gun away and keep your hands clear.......you identify you were involved in the shooting.......depending on the situation they may cuff you till they figure out what happened......

just remember, when arriving on the scene....they dont know who the "bad guy" was....so if they tell you to get on the ground and put your hands on your head, you do it and dont argue with them....youll have time to tell them what happened later.

 

[hammerklavier]

Don't get pulled over. Beyond that you need to find if you are required to inform an officer in your state.

 

[Skribs]

Good point, M-Cameron.

 

[sig228]

Everyone will have a different opinion in this matter, but if you ask me, NEVER, NEVER reveal that you are carrying. Unless, of course, you live in a state that requires you to.

Here in Florida, you are not required to notify.

I have a prior link to at least one horror story here in Florida from someone who volunteered their carry permit.

Florida police do not have a link to the carry permit database.

Volunteering your info usually results in the police officer "securing" your gun, meaning he removes it from the holster and unloads it. Cops are not familiar with every type of gun out there. The more people handling your gun, the more chances for a ND.

A cop in Florida shot himself while "securing" a revolver a few years ago.

Then, they place it in your trunk. A freebie violation of your 4th Amendment rights, in my opinion.

Concealed means concealed.

Period.

After a shooting...wow...dont get your advice from an internet forum. Speak to an attorney, before this worst possible situation happens.

 

[Deanimator]

1. Know the applicable laws of YOUR state and locality.
2. Obey those laws to the letter, no more, no less.

Anything else invites problems.

Obey the law and any worries are those of somebody else.

 

[Deanimator]

I have a prior link to at least one horror story here in Florida from someone who volunteered their carry permit.

I've previously posted an incident where Fairfax County LEOs falsely arrested a North Carolina man lawfully carrying who notified unnecessarily, for a variety of "offenses" that weren't actually offenses in Virginia. To add insult to injury, they tried to unlawfully keep his firearm, AFTER he was freed by a magistrate who explicitly termed his arrest "false".

When you step outside of what's REQUIRED by the law, you put yourself at the mercy of people with unknown knowledge, judgment and character.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

It depends a lot on jurisdiction.

Originally Tennessee suggested presenting the drivers license and the handgun carry permit in a traffic stop when asked for ID. Since the handgun carry permit number is the drivers license number, and there is a notation on the drivers license check whether the person ID'd has a carry permit, it is no longer required that the HCP be presented with the TDL on a traffic stop.

I have been advised not to volunteer that I am or am not carrying on a traffic stop. If the officer needs to know, he will ask and you should answer (as soon as he has run your ID, he will know). The real advisory is that you keep your hands in open view and make no furtive movements; however, this applies more to non permit holders carrying illegally.

I have been stopped once for burnt out tail light under the "present both" rule and once years later on a red light violation under the "TDL only" rule. Both times, the officers had no problem with dealing with a permit holder and did not ask to see or secure the gun. In both cases I was not belligerant toward the officer and did not act like I was hiding anything and the officer had no problems with me being armed.

I have always treated cops on a traffic stop like I would treat a relative I am on good terms with and have had no negative experiences. Now act like you're hiding contraband or imitate Al Pacino in "Dog Day Afternoon" and start yelling "Attica! Attica!", and all bets are off.

I am aware that there are some jurisdictions where the police are hostile toward private carry. or the political chief is hostile and the rank-and-file are not, but locally police here are open to private carry. I was converted to owning a handgun for self-defense in the 1970s by two local detectives and a prison corrections officer; before that time, I was a sport hunting and military-prep civilian marksmeanship enthusiast only. Police should not be assumed to be opposed to citizen handgun ownership or RTC: that is one of the big lies of the antigun propaganda of the last eighty years.

Police I know have admitted they cannot protect individuals, they can patrol public streets and investigate crimes and capture suspects, but they recognize that they cannot pretend to protect individuals, that citizens of the state have the right to keep and bear arms for defense of themselves (TN constitution Art I sect 26) and private ownership for lawful self-defense is not a threat to police.

 

[deafdave3]

Here in Louisiana, if a CCW holder is stopped, he/she is required to:

- Notify officer immediately that he/she has a licensed concealed handgun
- Allow officer to temporarily disarm him/her
- SUBMIT TO PAT-DOWN

(sorry, but I still can't get over the last one. I don't like it, but I abide by it)

So, anytime I'm stopped, I will immediately take my keys out, hold it in my hands and let the officer see my hands at all times. As soon as officer can hear me, I will announce that I have a licensed concealed handgun and that I must read lips because I'm deaf.

Haven't had any problems... yet.

 

[Sam1911]

I'm moving this to "Legal" because the very most important thing for you to do is figure out what your state laws say about the matter. (If you post where you are from, I'm sure we can help you out there.) Some states do link CCW license information to your driver's license. Some states provide that information to an officer as a matter of course, some do not.

After you know what you are legally required to do, you can decide how much more information you believe you really aught to be sharing. Most of us are going to answer that question with, "very little." Be polite, be honest, don't volunteer any information you aren't legally required to give.

Some folks do believe in "I've-got-nothing-to-hide" openness and will tell of getting out of tickets by using their CCW permit or license as sort of a "good-guy card." (I've done so inadvertently myself.) Others report pretty serious problems, hassles, temporary detainment/confiscation, and other very negative outcomes by telling an officer they are armed when there wasn't a direct need to do so. You'll have to read a lot and consider your decisions carefully.

That, of course, is most pertinent in the traffic-stop or man-on-the-street question.

Now, if you are involved in a shooting, the simple rules of thumb are to follow all directions given by the responding officers -- slowly, carefully, precisely -- and to say only something along the lines of, "That man attacked me, I was afraid for my life, I want to help you officers as much as I can but right now I should speak to my lawyer before I answer any more questions."

 

[RONSERESURPLUS]

Hello all RON L here

I'm in WV witha CC and I do and carry most days, I've been stopped in Traffic situations as well as an accident the advice someone gave or submitting your CC permit same time as your Drivers licence the common sense thing of Lights on (IN DARK), no sudden movements and hands in plain site have worked each and every time! Most cops here are Cool about it, as long as ya tell them! Never had one ask for my Weapon, or make a Big deal about it! I did see one lady catch Flack as she had a CC and a handgun in her purse and went to get he ID cop saw it, that got ugly! LOL

 

[7irontim]

In Michigan, both hands on the wheel in a traffic stop. You have to inform the LEO only if you are carrying. He knows you have a permit to carry when he runs your plate.

In our CPL class we were told in the event of a shooting, by you, be sure that you call the police, even if someone else already has. Also request that you be transported to a hospital to be checked out for injuries,wether you were injured or not. Don't talk to anyone about the incident without a lawyer present. Be co-opertive with LEOs but don't discuss anything.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I has been many year ago, but I remember training that instructed a person involved in a legal use of deadly force to place their gun on top of a nearby vehicle when officers arrived and keeping their hands clearly in view. The circumstances of the incident were that a legal CCW was set upon in a parking lot. He fired, stopped the BG and continued to hold him at gunpoint until officers arrived.

On top of his vehicle is better than re-holstering, because:
1. the arriving officers can clearly see where the firearm is
2. the gun owner is not required to reach for the gun to show it to officers

If you have re-holstered, avoid reaching for the gun at all. Inform the officers of it's location and allow them to remove it from the holster. Tension of all parties are extremely high in the aftermath of a shooting, the last thing you want is a mis-understanding of either their instructions or your intentions

 

[Skribs]

I'm from Washington, by the way.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I am with all the others who have said do what the law requires, no more, no less.

In Washington there is no legal duty to inform. My lawfully carried firearm is of no more concern to a police officer than my lawfully carried cell phone is. When I am stopped I feel no need to tell the officer, "Sir, for your safety and just in case it should ring or vibrate, I would like you to know that I am carrying a Samsung Intercept cell phone in my left front pocket." Since my legally carried gun is no different than my cell phone, I don't feel the desire to tell him about my gun either.

As far as what to do after a self defense shooting:

Always be the first one to call 911.

Give a thorough description of yourself so they will know who called when they arrive.

Return your gun to a lawfully carried condition, but as easily accessible to police officers as possible, because they will more than likely disarm you when they arrive. I would leave the gun loaded for two reasons; you don't want to be handling your gun when they arrive, and you've already had one threat and you don't know if there are other threats present or not.

Do what the cops say without arguing. I would expect to possibly get the whole felony stop treatment at first until they sort it out.

Finally, true experience: I was stopped for speeding with my wife and two kids in the car in a Seattle suburb. Gave the police officer my driver's license, military ID card (required to validate my out-of-state DL), insurance and registration. I was open carrying my gun on my right side, as always. I did not say anything about the gun or offer my CPL. Cop runs my DL and returns, gives me back my info and asks me to step out of the car. He then starts to go back to the rear of my vehicle, in front of his.

So, I get out of the car, with my openly carried and plainly visible Taurus PT-145 in my holster on my belt, and follow the officer to the rear of the vehicle. He said he didn't want to lecture me in front of my family and was going to let me go with a warning. That was it. The gun never became an issue because I don't make it a habit of bringing it up an making it an issue.

 

[Art Eatman]

I've lost track if Texas requires showing the CHL, but it automatically comes up on a highway patrol's computer or radio comeback, SFAIK. Used to, anyway.

So far, showing my CHL has brought no interest about the handgun in the few times I've been stopped. It seems to help in getting a verbal warning or just a warning ticket if I haven't been too lead-footed. Some folks report that they wind up in a BS session about guns.

The basic attitude of the highway patrol about CHL is that it's a Good Guy license. Figures; they administer and support the program.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Follow the law, simple really...You get to carry because of that reason, don't violate the trust they gave you...

Regards

 

[TexasRifleman]

I've lost track if Texas requires showing the CHL, but it automatically comes up on a highway patrol's computer or radio comeback, SFAIK. Used to, anyway.

No longer required to inform upon contact with LE. *Read post #30 in this thread for more detail on my statement here. It is technically incorrect but the result is the same....

Your Texas CHL status does NOT show up if an LE runs your DL info. It DOES show up if they run a wants/warrants/protective order check which triggers a TCIC/NCIC check.

As I understand it running both of those is usually done at a traffic stop, but the CHL status is not tied to the drivers license directly.

I'm not sure, but I am led to believe that the TCIC (Texas database) is the only place that shows the CHL status, not the NCIC (National). So I assume that if I were stopped by a New Mexico LE for example that he would have no way of knowing that I had a CHL since he wouldn't be accessing TCIC.

That's just Texas of course, I know there are some states that DO tie it to their drivers license database.

 

[Skribs]

Harley Quinn, you can get pulled over while still following the law. I've been pulled over before for not having my headlights on in a well lit area.

 

[geekWithA.45]

.You get to carry because of that reason, don't violate the trust they gave you...

The state of being armed is not a privilege or trust you "get" to have because "they" gave it to you.



The correct attitude to take in the presence of an officer of the law is not one of servility or submission. An officer that expects or demands servility and submission is flatly wrong, and the right way to deal with that is after the fact, with his chain of command.

The correct attitude is that of polite, equal strangers, while fully recognizing that the officer in question has an express interest in maintaining public order and in upholding the law. This interest merits a certain, measured amount of respect and deference, so long as it serves exactly those interests.

 

[Warhawk83]

Harley Quinn, you can get pulled over while still following the law. I've been pulled over before for not having my headlights on in a well lit area.

Well-lit, like daytime or a parking lot at night. It very well may be against the law if it's dark outside period. I know what you mean though, I got pulled over for not using my blinker when I did.

On topic, follow your local laws. Don't reach for it to show him for sure.

 

[One-Time]

Originally posted by:Harley Quinn

Follow the law, simple really...You get to carry because of that reason, don't violate the trust they gave you...

Regards

:banghead: You dont 'get to carry' because its a privelege, it is an individual right PERIOD, the only permit needed is the 2A, and that doesnt grant you the right, it just enumerates it and it is non infringeable and inalienable

Im surprised any one would say that



AFA the topic of being armed w/ a LEO, Im an ex LEO and the cops now days scare ME, they are quick on the trigger, quick to jump to a conclusion because they believe everyone is out to get them and that everyone is a criminal they havnt caught yet. As a result unless I am asked directly if I have a gun i do not volunteer any info, nor do i hand my permit w/ my DL

 

[Sky]

Texas 2009-2010 Tx CHL

GC 411.205 magistrate or peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver license or identification certification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

GC 411.178 and 411.179 talks about how a department in a given county only has to request who is issued licenses in the county which the agency is located. I would be surprised if it is not a standing request for many counties but I have not asked my Chief LEO.