Interacting with cops

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In MS we must let the officer know (submit the permit and d/l) if he/she asks about it. Here, specifically in my state, automobiles are are extension of the home under the Castle Doctrine and I'm not positive that you need a permit inside of your vehicle. I've yet to be pulled over or see this challenged. If they ask, I will tell them. I've yet to pulled over, but from what I hear they typically ask 'round these parts.
 
Only if the law allows you:confused: Your thoughts sound good here but in many locations you will go to jail:eek:

You dont 'get to carry' because its a privelege, it is an individual right PERIOD, the only permit needed is the 2A, and that doesnt grant you the right, it just enumerates it and it is non infringeable and inalienable

Im surprised any one would say that



AFA the topic of being armed w/ a LEO, Im an ex LEO and the cops now days scare ME, they are quick on the trigger, quick to jump to a conclusion because they believe everyone is out to get them and that everyone is a criminal they havnt caught yet. As a result unless I am asked directly if I have a gun i do not volunteer any info, nor do i hand my permit w/ my DL
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You dont 'get to carry' because its a privelege, it is an individual right PERIOD, the only permit needed is the 2A, and that doesnt grant you the right, it just enumerates it and it is non infringeable and inalienabl
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That's a great normative analysis unfortunately it is not at all descriptive.
 
sky said:
GC 411.206 magistrate or peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver license or identification certification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.
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True but they have neutered this law by removing any penalty associated with failing to show the CHL. By the way it's 411.205 not 206.

Net result is that the General Code requires you to display but there is no penalty either in the GC or in the Penal Code. They can't suspend your license or anything else if you fail to show the permit. The Legislative intent of that is to remove the requirement to display.

The reason given was that now that we have concealed carry in a car with no permit required, there was an inconsistency in the law. CHL holders were required to display, and penalized if they didn't. At the same time, someone carrying in their car with no permit was under no requirement to notify they were carrying. It put CHL holders in an unfair position.

So, the legislature simply removed any penalty rather than doing away with the requirement to display the CHL. Why did they do it that way? Who knows, they are politicians. I wish I knew the reasoning behind doing it this way. Seems stupid. I suppose it was some compromise so that people could say "Well, it's still required so we are 'tough' on CHL carriers." I dunno.

I guess it becomes a philosophical question; should one obey a law that has no penalty for disobedience? Whether it's a good idea or not is a different subject.
 
In MS we must let the officer know (submit the permit and d/l) if he/she asks about it. Here, specifically in my state, automobiles are are extension of the home under the Castle Doctrine and I'm not positive that you need a permit inside of your vehicle.
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In MS you are not required to have a permit to carry a pistol in your home, vehicle or place of business.
 
Skribs, if you have time and cash, take a (or another) concealed carry class with an information heavy bias such as the legal side of things. Generally this is part of the basic information of a class.
If you can't, then use your spare time to look up case law in WA and see how the state has recently handled this during stops and prosecutions of not notifying. It will be a good way to learn how it's applied in court.
You can also contact your local police or District Attorney's office and inquire about it. If you do that, ask for some specific cases you can study and give a try to reading the transcriptions.
I generally don't sweat notification, but I'm a Sovereign individual and am not worried about making police life easier. I'm worried about making liberty easier. YMMV.
 
wheelgunslinger said:
Skribs, if you have time and cash, take a (or another) concealed carry class with an information heavy bias such as the legal side of things. Generally this is part of the basic information of a class.
If you can't, then use your spare time to look up case law in WA and see how the state has recently handled this during stops and prosecutions of not notifying. It will be a good way to learn how it's applied in court.
You can also contact your local police or District Attorney's office and inquire about it. If you do that, ask for some specific cases you can study and give a try to reading the transcriptions.
I generally don't sweat notification, but I'm a Sovereign individual and am not worried about making police life easier. I'm worried about making liberty easier. YMMV.
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I'll make it a lot easier than that.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050
RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.

(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.
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That's it. That's all there is. Not much room for interpretation, either. In Washington, if you are carrying a concealed handgun or a loaded handgun in a vehicle, you must have your CPL in your possession. If a cop asks to see your CPL, and it is in your possession, you have to show it to him. That's all there is, plain and simple.

If you get caught without your CPL when you are supposed to have it, or don't show it to the cop after he/she asks for it, it's a ticket that carries a $250 fine.

Way too much todo over naught... in my humble opinion.
 
I have a story from Indiana:

I was driving home from an evening out with my friends. I am sober, been that way for 8 years. I used to drink myself to sleep after I got out of the Marines.
I drove down a country road that doesn't have any stop signs on the way in or out of town. There were two county sheriff's cars on the blind side of a church parking lot. They followed me less than a mile and pulled me over. Side bar, it always amazes me how any LEO sitting still can say that you blew by them, even when you're doing the speed limit. Anyway, the sheriffs came up to the window with guns drawn. They ask me to step out of my vehicle, so I did. I laced my hands on top of my head before they asked. I informed them that I was armed, they asked if I had a permit, and I said doesn't everybody? They asked me how many guns I had on me, and I told them where the one on my person was and where the extras in the POV were. The lead sheriff pulled the gun out of my waist band holster and gave it to his buddy, while they ran my driver's license and carry permit numbers. I gave them both numbers from memory, and they verified them from my wallet. I noticed when I was turning towards the back of my truck, that the sheriff that had my gun was putting it up to his nose. I informed him that it was loaded with one in the smoker and the other sheriff looked at me funny. I informed him that it had a slide lock and that the magazine release was under the trigger well. Still the sheriff didn't remove the bullet from the chamber. Still, the sheriff had the gun to his nose. I loudly announced that any accidental discharge of my gun by either of them would show clearly on their cameras in the dash board. Still the gun was in his nose. Finally, they asked me if I had been shooting this evening. I said no. They told me that they had a call from a person in the area about a vehicle shooting guns while driving down the road. I informed them that I worked at the Prison, had no ambition of living where I worked and also told them that they were welcome to inspect my private range. I will not be locked up for wreckless discharge of a firearm when I have my own range to shoot at. I asked them if they were new, because they didn't look like the usual sheriffs on duty in the area, and asked them who they were. I asked if they knew the usual sheriffs in the area and told them to get ahold of them for a character reference. Finally, after all the banter, the sheriff gave me back my weapon and they sent me on my way. The weapon was ever emptied and shown clear. I just want to know who the hell teaches a LEO to leave the bullet chambered and point the weapon to their head to sniff the barrel? Please remember that most LEOs are the guys that graduated with you that were smoking pot and driving drunk while you were gone in the military. They are just as dumb as everyone else.
 
Semper Fi.
I would not put my serial number up, it is also your Social Security # ;)
Mine on the other hand was 1870XX9 59-63...
:)
 
Skribs said:
Harley Quinn, you can get pulled over while still following the law. I've been pulled over before for not having my headlights on in a well lit area.
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Here in Illinois, headlights are required from "dusk to dawn" or as required by weather conditions!
 
<Personal comments about another member removed by Art.>

Follow the law, if you aren't required to inform ... don't unless you are going to reveal your weapon or are actually being searched / detained.
Don't do it because "You get to carry because of that reason, don't violate the trust they gave you", do it because the items on your belt or in your pockets aren't any business of anyone but yourself.
 
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I'd inform the officer. I also live in Washington State, and am not required to do so, but I can think of few hairier situations than for an officer to 'discover' a concealed weapon on my person, especially if I was reaching in that direction (to get my ID from my wallet, retrieve my vehicle registration, what have you). That may mean he'll disarm me for the duration of the encounter. I'm OK with that. I have a fully armed and armored cop standing next to me. Odds are I'm safe from the thugs that make me want to carry in the first place.
 
If i ever get into a shooting situation and the cops come i will not say anything till i speak to a lawyer, i heard never tell the police anything
 
That may mean he'll disarm me for the duration of the encounter. I'm OK with that.
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That's great, until he fumbles with your weapon and scares the crap out of you, or even worse manages to have a ND with your gun.

Or decides that you're an armed and dangerous [something] and prones you out on the side of the road for "officer safety".

But you have fun giving out un-needed information, if you're so insecure about your concealment skills.
 
BFD,
I was actually talking about the law as it pertains to the OP...Not driving with headlights on or off, just when you get stopped do what is correct as far as carry goes...

Troll, LOL...

Funny thing on most of these boards, is all the rights one feels they have and yet don't obey laws:confused: Look at all the various fairly ignorant replies and when telling one to follow the law someone makes a big deal out of it...

If you don't know the law it is not an excuse, they will tell you...Pretty much of a bummer to be honest, but that is life...Asking ones here about what to do is the first mistake I notice...Some give good advice like look up the laws and others tell them to follow the law, well that means they have to do their homework, not rely on others for the answer...

Following the code:p What one thinks about Ignorance etc...

If nobody in this country knows the law, then how can everyone be expected to follow it? Ignorance of the law is a perfectly good excuse, particularly in a country that was founded on a "Republican Form of Government" where laws would be few, stable, and make sense to the average person. But if today we asked people on the street how many laws they were aware of, I bet most replies would be centered on theft and murder, and some traffic regulations. Other than that, I expect ignorance. To me, this is telling. It is telling because it means that people are, not surprisingly, interested mainly in their own affairs.
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http://www.lewrockwell.com/lora/m.lora12.html

True law enforcement is a service item, but screw up with them and many get killed for making very basic mistakes, as in not doing what they say at the time...Way to many just don't get it, think they are living a movie about the Dukes of Hazzard:rolleyes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dukes_of_Hazzard


Regards
 
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IMO, it's best to notify the officer on a traffic stop whether the law requires it or not. Here is what I've done while carrying as a cop, rather than a CCW permit: I kept my hands in plain view (on the steering wheel), and when the officer asked for me to provide my DL, insurance, and registration I told him I am LE and armed and wanted him to know that before I started reaching around in the vehicle. He asked where my gun was, and where my LE credentials were, and then asked me to carefully get out my creds to show them to him. After that we went about the normal routine.

Also, be kind to the cop and as you pull over put on your dome light and roll down the window then put your hands back on the wheel, whether you are carrying or not.

As for the second part of your question, if you were involved in a self defense shooting you can expect the responding officers to be amped up responding to a shots fired call. They know there was a shooting, they expect to get there and start looking for someone with a gun. They have no way of knowing if the person they find is a crook, or someone that was defending themselves. As a cop who carries in plainclothes 95% of the time I was also taught never to reach for the gun or anywhere someone is likely to carry a gun when contacted by other LE. In addition I was also taught if I have my gun out and am contacted by LE and ordered to "drop the gun" to do just that. That means open my hands and let it free fall to the ground. Anything else may be interrupted as moving to take a shot.

Take it or leave it, those are my thoughts on the matter.
 
Duty to carry and display endorsement, penalty for violation--director of revenue immunity from liability, when.

In Missouri:

571.121. 1. Any person issued a concealed carry endorsement pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall carry the concealed carry endorsement at all times the person is carrying a concealed firearm (on his person when not on/in their property) and shall display the concealed carry endorsement upon the request of any peace officer. Failure to comply with this subsection shall not be a criminal offense but the concealed carry endorsement holder may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed thirty- five dollars.

A form of "Didn't ask, don't tell"...then again we got a Castle Doctrine, your wheels are your castle.

I don't trust a cop as far as I could throw them. Do what "da man" says, how he says it and when he says it. Limit ANY interaction with cops to the bare minimum. Virtually every gun law you MUST obey, they are exempt from even when OFF DUTY. When a cop can protect me then I may have a few more ounces of respect for them.

Some good advice you seek? Don't get your legal advice from the Interwebs and especially not from any pro-gun Interwebds site. Read up on the law and have a good gun law lawyer on speed dial.

All of the preceeding "good advice" is completely free and worth just about as much in a court of law.
 
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IMO, it's best to notify the officer on a traffic stop whether the law requires it or not.
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How'd that work for the guy in Virginia who was arrested for:
  1. Carrying across state lines (with a valid credential).
  2. Carrying in Virginia on a (recognized) NC credential.
  3. Having hollowpoints.
...NONE of which are crimes in Virginia.

Why'd they try to keep his gun AFTER the magistrate freed him and TOLD him he'd been FALSELY ARRESTED? He elected not to sue them, for what reason I can't imagine, given that it was the most egregious such incident I've ever heard of in which someone wasn't beaten or shot by police.

That SINGLE incident is enough for me to stick STRICTLY to the LETTER OF THE LAW, nothing more, nothing less. If an LEO doesn't like that, he needs to not BE an LEO, voluntarily or otherwise.

I take the applicable CCW laws very seriously and exert great effort to know and obey them. All too many LEOs either can't be bothered to know the law, or can't be bothered to obey it even if they do know it, hence the ever growing parade of civil suits against the Philadelphia PD and its personnel.

I have to know and obey the law. No LEO should think that he's exempt from that requirement. If he acts on such a "belief" there will be consequences.

And ALWAYS use a voice recorder in LEO encounters where lawful to do so. Somebody who violates the law won't hesitate to lie about it.
 
Every thing I have read says beyond informing the police that you are CC (if required or by choice)and ID yourself

Don't talk to police
Don't consent to a search unless the officer tells you are being detained and then he can only search the interior of our car. Get an attorney if you are detained, but don't talk to police.

If involved in a shooting do:

Call 911 first so you are not viewed as the perp, but the victim.
Request medical assistance
Inform 911 and state clearly more than once "I was in fear of my life" Tapes will be used in court..This small item may exonerate you.
Put the weapon down in plain sight and wait for police instruction
Most important when questioned by police say " I want to cooperate fully officer but I need to speak to my attorney first" You have a right to do this.

Watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
 
Don't consent to a search unless the officer tells you are being detained and then he can only search the interior of our car.
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Never CONSENT, regardless.

If he has PC, he doesn't NEED consent. If he doesn't, consent negates his lack of PC.
 
My point was if detained, he doesn't need your permission. The search can only be of the immediate car interior and if the LEO wants a pat down for weapons. (Terry stop)If you are not detained, it's your decision to allow it or not, but why would you?

If not detained, ask the officer "Am I free to go?"
 
Sorry, but this thread has seriously started re-covering the old ground of many and many other threads. Take pity on the poor old horse.

Know your state laws. Try to learn about the laws of other states through which you'll be travelling. And figure some common sense, courtesy and politeness into your deal...
 
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