Interesting article on TV news

[Don357]

The wife and I were watching the national evening news on our local Fox affiliate last night, and a story came on that actually caught my attention. It was talking about the number of people, specifically children, who have been diagnosed with chronic depression, and how that number is increasing. Now I know that unfortunately, many people DO suffer from chronic depression and need treatment. And again unfortunately, some of those are the ones that carry out acts such as Parkland FL, Las Vegas, Columbine, etc. And during the administration of the former president, and his insurance scheme, many medical professionals were "incouraged" to ask questions about the gun ownership of their parents and other leading questions that could be interpreted to indicate depression thereby heading off future gun ownership, since being diagnosed and/or treated for depression is a disquafier on form 4473.
I may be wrong, but I may be right. This is just my opinion based on my observation.

 

[PabloJ]

For last couple of decades the use of antidepressants has been on the rise in many industrialized countries with some countries fielding more violent movies and games than us. Despite this fact we seem to be the only country with high incidence of terror attack using semi-automatic assault-style weapons. Why is this the case?

 

[Kleanbore]

Despite this fact we seem to be the only country with high incidence of terror attack using semi-automatic assault-style weapons. Why is this the case?

Well, (1), movies and games are but one aspect of the cultures, and (2) they use full auto weapons and destructive devices in a number of other countries.

 

[Telekinesis]

since being diagnosed and/or treated for depression is a disquafier on form 4473.
I may be wrong, but I may be right

Ahh, yeah. You're wrong.

Disqualifiers for possession of firearms include involuntary commitment and being adjudicated (by a court of law) mentally defective. Neither of these are met by being prescribed antidepressants.

Stigmatizing mental health is not helping the issue. People need to be able to seek help because these drugs DO help a lot of people, and telling gun owners that if they see a doctor they may wind up with a lifetime ban from guns causes more harm than good.

We as a society are at an amazing point of being able to help the chemical imbalance that causes depression and other mental issues. Not just talking to people, we can actually help fix the problem!
Now tell a depressed or suicidal veteran "I have something that can help save your life, but it requires that you be added to a list that may be eventully used to forever deny your constitutional rights". That's what happens when people (wrongly) say that depression is a disqualifying diagnosis, and that's what happens when someone goes on the news and says that anyone prescribed a drug by a psychiatrist should be barred from ever owning a gun.

Despite this fact we seem to be the only country with high incidence of terror attack using semi-automatic assault-style weapons. Why is this the case?

In other countries they use bombs, trucks, knives, fully automatic weapons, and acid. Are those forms of death and dismemberment preferable to semi-automatic assault-style weapons?

We should focus on the act, not the tool.

 

[boom boom]

Mental illness diagnoses show as much difference as cancer.
Well known 2nd Amendment advocate, Clayton Cramer has an excellent law review article on mental illness and the 2nd Amendment. Read it all. Link to article on this page of scholarly articles is a 2014 Ct. Law Review article.
http://www.claytoncramer.com/scholarly/journals.htm

 

[BigBore44]

Anyone’s know the side effects of antidepressants? I do. Two major side effects are suicidal and homicidal ideations. Seems ironic doesn’t it?

The problem is coping skills. Well not THE problem. But a major one. They aren’t pushed. What is pushed are pills.....for everything. Don’t change your life, take this pill. Don’t talk to someone and resolve the issue at hand, take a pill. Your kid has a lot of energy and has a short attention span? Let’s not change his diet and exercise routine, put him on this CNS (central nervous system) stimulant Amphetamine. A Schedule II narcotic. Because introducing a synthetic methamphetamine into a developing child’s bloodstream is always a good idea. The same holds true for adults as well. Then those same chemical dependencies are often passed to children when they have children. And the cycle continues.

Edit to add: I worked 8 years in a Crisis Stabilization Center. And not as a janitor. I have just a smidge of knowledge in this department. The other thing said by Trump was we need to make it easier for people like Cruz to be “nabbed”. I don’t think he knows how easy it is to be nabbed and committed involuntarily. A phone call and a signed 3rd part affidavit from the reporting party stating that they heard or felt the person wanted to do harm to themselves or others are all that’s required in Oklahoma. Doesn’t even have to be true. No evidence is required supporting the affidavit. That person is then committed to a MH unit. And the doctor has 24-72 to SCHEDULE a mental health hearing. That hearing can be several day from the point of declaration. Sorry Mr. President. But this time, at least for Oklahoma, he doesn’t have a clue. It is VERY EASY to be nabbed. The sheriff and FBI in Florida failed. And 17 people are dead as a result.

 

[hdwhit]

Don357 wrote:
And during the administration of the former president, and his insurance scheme, many medical professionals were "incouraged" to ask questions about the gun ownership...

Can you point me to the part of the Affordable Care Act that encourages such questions?

The reason I ask is that I can't find it anywhere in the statute. I do know that the American Academy of Pediatircs and American College of Physicians in 2011 (years after the ACA was enacted) both added recommendations in which doctors were encouraged to ask about gun ownership and gun storage, but that wasn't part of Obamacare.

 

[Sniper66]

Sounds like Oklahoma is much different than Kansas, where I worked for about 40 years as a psychologist. I participated in 100s of commitment cases. In the 70s, commitments were easier, but never "easy". Now in Kansas the pendulum has swung completely the other way. It is very easy to avoid commitment. I've seem many people faced with commitment for suicidal behavior simply deny feeling suicidal during the hearing and be released with a recommendation for outpatient treatment, which they do not attend. Same with danger to others, "No Your Honor, I'm not going to hurt anyone; I was just mad when I said those things."...released with recommendation for therapy, which they do not attend. Judges frequently replace the psychologist's opinion with their judgment. Don't know how Florida does things,but clearly they blew it. As info emerges, it appears they are routinely not making arrests where they would have in the past....with grave consequences.

 

[BigBore44]

Sounds like Oklahoma is much different than Kansas, where I worked for about 40 years as a psychologist. I participated in 100s of commitment cases. In the 70s, commitments were easier, but never "easy". Now in Kansas the pendulum has swung completely the other way. It is very easy to avoid commitment. I've seem many people faced with commitment for suicidal behavior simply deny feeling suicidal during the hearing and be released with a recommendation for outpatient treatment, which they do not attend. Same with danger to others, "No Your Honor, I'm not going to hurt anyone; I was just mad when I said those things."...released with recommendation for therapy, which they do not attend. Judges frequently replace the psychologist's opinion with their judgment. Don't know how Florida does things,but clearly they blew it. As info emerges, it appears they are routinely not making arrests where they would have in the past....with grave consequences.

We aren’t that far off. But the judge typically follows the advice of the doctor. Our facility was a Crisis center. 170-180 different pts a month on a 32 bed unit. Average stay was 3-5 days. Very short term. But they were also at the most critical. The problem with the Florida case, at least if applied to Oklahoma, is the departments would be liable for those deaths in Oklahoma. If they fail to EDO (or EOD) someone with sworn statements and evidence and that person does do something? That entire department with be sued till their officers are on foot and carrying twigs as weapons.

 

[MedWheeler]

PabloJ writes:

For last couple of decades the use of antidepressants has been on the rise in many industrialized countries with some countries fielding more violent movies and games than us. Despite this fact we seem to be the only country with high incidence of terror attack using semi-automatic assault-style weapons. Why is this the case?

This is a thread on diagnoses of depression in children, and speculation of an agenda behind an increase in such diagnoses, not a thread on banning scary-looking guns.

We know where you stand on this, and we'll discuss it in related threads.

 

[Bang!]

For last couple of decades the use of antidepressants has been on the rise in many industrialized countries with some countries fielding more violent movies and games than us. Despite this fact we seem to be the only country with high incidence of terror attack using semi-automatic assault-style weapons. Why is this the case?

Which countries? We can export MS-13/other gangs, drug trafficking, certain cultural subsets, etc... and see how their incidents of violence numbers change. We can send them Chicago, Memphis, Detroit,...well you get the idea. Compare ‘us’ in an apple to apple way and we’re not worse than anybody else.