Interesting encounter at the DNR shooting range

Status
Not open for further replies.
i would have demanded to speak to his supervisor and if not available i would have called a Leo to deal with the issue. as far as i am concerned, that is theft. same as if he had taken your wallet out of your pocket. if having a firearm in a holster is against the rules fine TELL ME but to REMOVE MY PERSONAL PROPERTY FROM MY PERSON after UN-securing it from MY secured holster...... i am fuming just thinking about it... i would still be raising he** with the boss and their boss until i was satisfied this would NEVER happen again to anyone.
 
1. File a complaint, citing safety concerns over his actions.

2. Find someplace else to shoot. And in your complaint, state why you feel unsafe coming back.

That sounds like a total hollywood grandstand act on his part. That sort of behavior is unnecessary and unsafe. A simple tap on the shoulder and "Can I talk to you a minute?" is the PROPER way to begin that sort of interaction. Maybe it's just where I live, but that has always been the way those things are handled at the clubs I've been at.
 
You are correct sniper5.

flrfh213: I do believe that he IS the supervisior. In both trips, he was the only employee present.
 
"flrfh213: I do believe that he IS the supervisior. In both trips, he was the only employee present."

There's a super somewhere, maybe not there, but in an office somewhere. And if you have a firearm-friendly state rep, he can be notified. You can bet your last dollar that he'll know where that super is.
 
I've never found it wise to argue with an RO, even if they are jerks. I'd just never go back, and make sure his supervisors were aware of his unprofessional and potentially hazardous behavior.

jm
 
Some people have been trained to treat a grab at their weapon as a hostile act, and their reaction may not be to casually turn around and strike up a conversation with the assailant.
Click to expand...

+1.

Even though here in MD I'm unable to carry, and thus have had no formal training or experience in the matter - if someone essentially sneaks up on me and not only touches my firearm but manipulates it (Removes it from the holster and drops the magazine, as it seems the OP indicates the RO did) there's going to be more than a friendly howdy-neighbor talking to coming their way.

Nobody in their right mind sneaks up on a person carrying a loaded pistol (and using a loaded rifle!) and does something like that. He's either a total idiot, or on some sort of power-trip. Either way he was in the wrong, and needs to be removed from his position of authority before someone gets hurt or killed.

Absolutely write a letter to his superiors. If it were me, I'd also make a personal visit to his superiors to make sure that they understand that someone could have paid very dearly for his asinine behavior.
 
RO is supposed to be in charge, but not abuse powers. Grabbing your gun is like, a misdemeanor at least? What was this click you heard btw? The hammer???
 
Sounds like rather hostile behavior that can very easily result in someone have at least a broken nose and at worst an acute case of bullet poisoning.

I agree, bring it up to HIS supervisor. Just because he's the only employee there, does not mean he is the supervisor, and make sure to impress on his supervisor how dangerous and unprofessional his behavior was.

After all, for all he knew, you could have been an off-duty federal agent, or some other LEO-type.

Hotheads like that do not belong on a range or in any position of power. Unfortunately natural selection seems to have been legislated out of resolving such an issue.
 
calm down.
You're going to get "noticed" not to tresspass on any of their ranges if you do something rash.

Very politely write a letter to their supervisor asking for a review of their policies as applied in this instance. What you want is for this gentleman NOT to try this again with ANYONE, and you want to be on as good a terms with him as you can be. There is no point in making an enemy when you could win the discussion without doing it. If you make an enemy, you're going to end up losing somehow.

If you avoid making an enemy, while gently winning the argument, you're going to prevent a tragedy somewhere down the line, and that is a far more honorable thing to remember yourself as having done, in the long run!
 
ill make this very short and to the point, ten minute kick out is crap on a website.


If handguns were not allowed in any way at this range, the range officer would have legally been required to tell you that when he yelled at you for doing draw and shoot drills during your first range visit.

Since he did not say no handguns period at this range you are in the legal right to possess and use a handgun at said range. Untill the people in the range office post a sign in the front office next to were you sign in stating no handguns.

Strange enough, the DNR does have the right to say what weapons and projectiles are allowed at a range they own and run. Its law.

However since noneof the above happened, you can only surmise that handguns are allowed.

Furthermore what happened to you during your second range trip, and the purpose of this post is a crime most jurisdictions list as

Armed felonius robbery/assault based upon the circumstances.
1. he was armed
2. he stole an item from your possession.
3. the item taken was located on your body, hence assault because he touched your person
4. assault because he obviously pointed the weapon at you.

even in the most screwed up jurisdiction in even chicago, you had the legal right to stuff your rifle barrel up his nostril and use deadly force as he was perfectly ready and able and capable of killing you then and there.

Legally speaking he had no legal right to seize anyones weapons, not even if it was a sawed off shotgun with a 3 inch barrel on it. Unless hes a sworn in peace officer,state game warden, or a member of the federal police ie, fbi us marshall or atf, he has no right to take it.


please avoid this place, its obviously an unsafe place to be as any intelligent adult knows that grabbing someones gun can and will most likely leave the grabber on the floor dead or dying of multiple gun shot wounds.

At this time contact the DNR office in charge of running gun ranges and start complaining. If that doesnt help, talk a cheap lawyer on it, and if the see a miscarraige of justice, pursue legal action to get the person punished. After all having a gun shoved in your face is extremely traumatic and debillitating psychologically.
 
I had a similar experience when I accidently left my 1911 cocked after an IDPA practice string, it was empty but I forget to drop the hammer before holstering. One of the other ROs who thought he was the end all be all of IDPA land tried to remove the pistol from my holster.... I was talking to another shooter at the time and felt the tug on my belt. I reacted by slamming my right hand down on top of his and swinging with my left which held a partially loaded magazine I was reloading at the moment. End result was that I broke two of my knuckles, loosened a bunch of his teeth and nobody sneaks up behind me anymore...on or off the range.
 
i assume the click was his snap on the holster...
Click to expand...

Reading back over the OP's post, that does seem the most probable answer. Either way though, that's still a big no-no and the guy should have known better.

And the more I think about it, I simply can't understand the comments asking why the OP felt it necessary to carry while on the range in the first place. I believe one commenter mentioned how safety was supposed to come first - as if a loaded pistol, properly holstered and left alone, would somehow make a situation where one is literally surrounded by guns unsafe.

To those commenters, let me say this - there are documented cases of not only robberies at ranges, but suicides as well. Based on the OP's description of events, how was he supposed to know what was happening? For all he knew, the person who had just relieved him of his gun was about to use it to send a bullet into his brain, or to off themselves. IMHO, he had every right to react with up to and including deadly force if he had so chosen. The RO is the one at fault here, and he could have paid for his actions with his life.

Assuming that a firing range is any safer or populated to a lesser degree by loonies and scalliwags than is the "regular world" is a fool's errand. Danger doesn't wait for you at the entrace to the range parking lot. The potential for violence and criminal activity is everywhere. Vigilance should be an on-going excercise - especially when one chooses to carry a firearm.
 
911 - What is your emergency ?

An armed assailant has just stolen my handgun - please send officers !
 
Somebody swiping your piece out of your holster is throwing down the gauntlet. I can't imagine that DNR range officer would have liked it much if you had pulled the same trick on him.

That said, if it actually happens there's not much you can do about it. Make the decision to fight back, or go the play-it-cool route. If it's some thug, the guy already has your gun and is probably pointing it at you. And in your case, assaulting a LEO is a no-no, even if he started it (I would call swiping your gun "starting it", a judge probably wouldn't).

I would write this guy's boss a letter. What he did was unsafe.
 
i probably woulda slammed a mag into the ar and turned around


my range they just say that any holstered weapon must have the mag out and the slide open

heck my range officer rick has his glock with a mag half in and the slide locked back
 
Last edited:
Grey Morel:

This is the Kingsbury range in LaPorte County, correct?

This is a real shame because I used to enjoy Kingsbury; the RO's actions are disturbing enough that I'm probably not going to go there anytime soon, however. I don't open carry, but if he's crazy and/or stupid enough to do what he did to you, I don't want to test what he would do if I were to "break" any other unposted rules.

I really like Kingsbury; it's a nice range. I would appreciate it if you would keep me updated by PM or on this thread. If there is anything I can do to get this guy off the range, let me know so I can get back to having fun and focusing more downrange instead of behind my back!
 
Ok, I'm having a couple of reactions here.
One is leaning over a bench wringing out an AR when anything grabs my belt--that reflex buttstroke would be severely messed up by being seated and probably not end well.

DNR employee catching a good, sharp, foveal, view of the checkering on the end of that butt might (only might by the description) make an impression on our Barney Fife. Standing offhand? that would likely start and end poorly.

My second impression is of being on the line and one or two spots down the line, and Barn' Fife comes up behind some dude on a hot line, and I'm thinking Condition Red--which is not likely to end well either.

This person, whether an actual DNR person or an agent employed by DNR as a range operator, needs some one to have a candid sit-down with them on the potential side effects of over-zealous range enforcement.
 
Grey,

Unfortunately, a fair number of so-called "Range Officers" are bullies like the one you described. Had this happened on private property, I'd suggest you leave and not come back untill you received an apology and the range had modified it's rules. However, the range you were at was a public range, and it belongs to you as much as it does this so-called "Range Officer" bully.

I suggest you right a letter to the range detailing what you told us and expressing your concern about how a dangerous situation could have developed as a result of this bullies actions. I mean, he could have used you to flinch and create a discharge, or he could have got a face full of fist as you turned to defend against someone trying to steal your gun.

Be sure to mention that you have a permit to carry and that no rules had been posted that said you otherwise couldn't do so on DNR property. Also make not of the fact that you had previously carried on this same DNR property with no problems.

Hope this helps.
 
Armslore: Yes, this was at the Kingsbury Fish and Wildlife Area range, south of LaPorte Indiana, just East of Kingsford Heights.

Yes the "click" sound was my holster. I was wearing a Fubus paddle holster.

I will write a letter to the DNR about the mans actions.
 
I live in a major metropolitin area. A lot of folks, of all kinds of people. Although rare, people have had been robbed of their guns and wallets while at a public shooting area. People have committed suicide at indoor ranges / stores.

I belong to a private club, 40+ acres in a remote area. Although you need a combo to get in the gate, people can walk around it. Sometimes, I am the only one there or maybe one other person will be there.

No matter which of the above three locations I shoot at, I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS have a loaded weapon on my person. It is posted as against the rules at all three locations, but as my air-lite TI is always concealed, it doesn't create a problem. ( I don't have a CCW either!!!)

Although I expect people to behave themselves at a range, as we are dealing with people, strangers for the most part, there is always a level of unpredictability. Compund this with the fact that I am wearing two levels of ear protection and can't hear very well and there are guns around in the control of people I don't know or trust, I feel comfortable with my actions. As long as I don't have to shoot anyone ( believe me that is the next to the last thing I would ever want to do), no one will ever know.

I also assume everyone at the range has at least one weapon loaded, ready to go within arms reach.

Sooner or later, that DNR employee is going to get himself shot by acting as he did. If nothing else, he needs to read these forums and realize how stupid his actions were. The protection of your weapon is a prime objective for most folks.
 
No question that the "officer," so-called, was well out of line and should be reprimanded by the range's owners. There's also no question that I would have paid my very last visit to the place; who can say for sure what's coming next at such an operation?

Get out, man, before they hornswaggle you the next time you show up.
 
If there is anything I can do to get this guy off the range, let me know so I can get back to having fun and focusing more downrange instead of behind my back!
Click to expand...

I think this is one of the more profound reasons why a hostile "Range Officer" should be "shown the door" so-to-speak. When people are busy avoiding the antics of a hostile Range Officer, they are not devoting all thier resources to practicing safe gun-handling and shooting.

A hostile Range Officer makes for a less-safe Range. It's as simple as that.

For those of you who will in the future be acosted by a hostile Range Officer - a Bully - I offer this suggestion: Keep your cool at all costs and leave the range. A Bully is an "Emotional Vampire" that feeds off hostility, and will use any "Words" or "Actions" that you make in response to justify his actions to himself - and others. Don't fall into the trap he has set for you and, in turn, increase the "Bad Vibes" on the range - for this just makes it less safe for everyone. There is always time to write a cool, calculating letter detailing what has happened and the potential consequences if the situation is allowed to persist. If the range directors really care, then they'll put a stop to the Bully's shenhanigans....and even if they don't care, they will be afraid of that letter resurfacing in a civil court should someone at thier range be injured.

The Pen truely is mightier than the sword....or the gun.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Highland Lofts
  • Locked
Darrington Washington DNR 435th Ave shooting pit
2
Replies
27
Views
2K
Highland Lofts
Highland Lofts
W
  • Locked
Bullies at the shooting range...
2 3 4 5
Replies
101
Views
7K
bluetopper
bluetopper
E
  • Locked
Holsters at the range?
Replies
12
Views
1K
c_yeager
C
F
  • Locked
Common Sense Ain't So Common...
Replies
7
Views
701
highorder
H
J
  • Locked
Indiana Handgun Law
2
Replies
30
Views
5K
cherryriver
C
Back
Top