Interesting problem with an older High Power

[Jamie C.]

I've got a Browning High Power that was made about 1964, according to the information I can find. It's got the old-style internal extractor, like a 1911.

I'm a little puzzled because it has an interesting habit; about 50% of the time, or a little less, it will not eject the last round fired. It extracts it, but it doesn't eject it.

I've tried it with several different brands of ammo, and a couple of different bullet weights. Also with different magazines ( all Mec Gars though). Always with the same results. Doesn't seem to matter if the gun is clean or dirty, either.

I've checked the extractor and it seems fine. Same for the ejector.

It's not like it's really any big deal, since it doesn't tie up the gun ( the casing is always just sitting on top of the mag, and falls out when the mag is ejected )... but it bugs me all the same.

Anybody have any suggestions? Anything I should try?


J.C.

 

[loadedround]

I bet it's the magazines you have. Mecgars are known to be POS sometimes. Buy one of another brand and see if your trouble goes away. BTW, Browning never made their own magazines for the Hi-power. They were always made by an outside vendor.

 

[Jamie C.]

If I'm not mistaken, Mec Gar is the current magazine manufacturer for FN and Browning, and has been for some time.

But as I said, this gun is an old one, and the mags may very well be the source of the problem. Well the mag follower anyway.

At least that's my thinking so far.

It'd be a lot easier to figure out if the pistol was consistent about what it's doing.


J.C.

P.S. The one thing I want folks to understand here is that this pistol feeds and fires flawlessly with everything I've put through it. And it's one with the old "humped" feed ramp. The last shell casing not leaving the gun isn't really an issue so much as a curiosity. As I said earlier, the casing always leaves the gun with the magazine when it's released.

 

[loadedround]

Jamie: You may be correct about the manufacturer of Browning Mags, but I only mentioned that I have had problems Mec Gar magazines before as had several of my shooting buddies. We avoid them like the plaque.

 

[HankC]

Mr. Steve Camp has an excellent write-up on this topic on external extractor BHP at his website I think the basics applies as well:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Last Fired Case.htm

 

[Jamie C.]

Hey Loaded,
It's always funny to see who likes or dislikes various brands of things and why. You and your friends don't like Mec Gar 'cause you've had bad luck with 'em, while I have always had good luck.
Then again, some people like Pro Mag and a couple of other brands that I avoid like the plague... Strange how that works.

Hank,
Thanks for the link to Stephen's article, but I gotta tell you, that was the first place I headed when I noticed the problem. His site is near the top of my bookmark list, and always the first place I head when I have a question about a HP.

I've pulled the extractor out, cleaned the channel thoroughly, and even filed off a small amount on the extractor's stop.. ( I don't know what the proper name for it is... I'm calling it a "stop" because that seems to be it's function; to stop the extractor hook from sinking too deeply in the chamber area ). The extractor holds a round pretty firmly when it's placed under the hook, but it may still need a bit more tightening.

With the slide disassembled an a dummy round in place, the slide can be shaken quite vigorously without the round falling out. I can't tell, however, if the case is slipping down just a bit though.... even a slight amount could be enough to not let the case clear the lower edge of the ejection port.

I'm just a bit hesitant to do too much filing on the extractor though.... Tough to put that metal back after it's removed. And a C&S extractor is around $60 too, so a mistake on my part won't be cheap to undo. And although I have found a few cheaper internal extractors for HPs, they all seem to be of unknown origin.... and possibly ( more than likely ) worse than what's currently in the gun.

Still, I may just have to break out the files and stones and give it one more try... ( Yes, I'm waffling. )

Anyway, thanks for the replies.

J.C.

 

[ribbonstone]

IF it extracts the last round, but doesn't eject it, then I'd be tempted to look at the ejector and esp. the magazine follower. The only difference in the last round and the rest is that when the round is being extracted, there is a follower and not a new round on deck.

Round underneath will give a nice sloping/tapered shape under the extracting round...the follower might just have a sharp edge showing that catches the round's rim before it can get all the way back to be struck by the ejector.

 

[Jamie C.]

Hiya, Ribbonstone.

Yeah, I tend to agree with you on the follower issue. I think that the ejector on this pistol is a little too dependent on the pressure from the cartridge underneath to get the spent casing out through the port.

I have gone back and re-tensioned the extractor, and so far it seems to have helped. After firing about 10-15 pairs of rounds through the gun (load 2 rounds in the mag, fire, repeat), I only had one instance of a "questionable" ejection on the last round. And even then, the shell made it out of the gun.... it was just "weak" and fell pretty close by.

The problem now though is that if this doesn't clear it up, all I can do is replace the extractor it's self, or try something else, 'cause I've adjusted this extractor to the point that it won't fit back in the channel if it's curved any more. And I don't want to bend the area directly behind the hook, since that's probably where an over-adjustment is most likely to break it.

Anyway, that's what I've done so far, and the results I've gotten. I'll keep shooting and see what happens. Who knows... maybe I got lucky and actually fixed it.

(Edited to replace the word "ejector" with "extractor", which is what I meant to type to begin with.... Sorry for the confusion. The ejector seems to be okay here. )

J.C.

 

[Azrael256]

Jamie, how are your springs? Specifically magazine and recoil.

 

[Jamie C.]

Hi Azrael.

The mag springs seem okay. I've tried a few different mags, all with the same intermittent results. No one mag showing a problem more than another.

The recoil and main springs appears to be the original, and given the age of the gun, the main is undoubtedly a 26?, 27? pound spring, and not the heavier one that's found in the newer HPs.

I don't intend to run +P or +P+ ammo in this gun, so I haven't thought much of it, especially since I'm not having any other extraction/ejection/feeding issues other than this last round business.

....but still, maybe a heavier recoil spring wouldn't be a bad idea "just on account'a how"? ... get the springs up to "standard" for a new one, more or less?

Can't hurt, I suppose, and I can always put the old one back if new problems show up...


Thanks for the input.

J.C.

P.S. Sorry, had to go back and edit this one... Pinched a nerve in my hip the other day, and the meds are scrambling my typing skills a bit more than usual. I keep meaning one thing and typing the wrong word for it. I usually keep Mr. Camp's site up and open, as a reference, so I can keep my terms and part names straight, but for now I can barely keep my mind on one window at a time. :-(

 

[ribbonstone]

Out of thoughts...would be tempted to trace any stary rub marks on the magazine from that last round.

Good news is that it's the last round...and you are right, are several guns taht are dependent on the rounds coming up on deck for some suport for the ejector to work right. BUt as it is the last round, it's not that big an issue to most people. Know it wou8ld tedn to peeve me, but if it stayed as just the last round, could live with it.

 

[Jamie C.]

Okay, ran another few pairs of rounds through it again today. A little good news for a change; no failure to eject the last round at all, so maybe my last re-tensioning of the extractor actually did some good.

Also, I've wondered if a slightly longer ejector might help.... Get it up against the back of the last casing a little earlier in the cycle, so it doesn't get as much chance to slip down?

Only problem I see is that the ejector picks up pretty close to the OAL of a loaded cartridge, so if it's too long it won't let one clear the port. Not good.

Another solution I'm thinking on is possibly roughing-up the end of the ejector... Maybe if it's not so smooth it'll slow up the case head dropping?

Then again, maybe I should just quit worrying about it, shoot the gun, and count my blessings that it isn't having any REAL problems?

Again though, thanks for all the input. If anybody thinks of anything else, don't hesitate to speak up.


J.C.