Internet research can only go so far: first shotgun

[Batty67]

Hello. I can spend 1k tops for my first shotgun, which will be a tactical/HD semiautomatic. Not going with a pump, which would be a lot cheaper.

So far, all research "roads" lead to Mossberg 930 SPX, Remington 1100, Remington 11-87, or the FN SLP. The latter is a stretch on the wallet.

I like pistol grips, but not a deal breaker.

Because of 10 years ago LASIK issues (dominent right eye weaker and fatigues easily), I need to shoot both eyes open and am heavily leaning toward a shotgun with a rail so I can add an easy to acquire, low-profile red dot like a Burris Fastfire. I'm close to pulling the plug on (dropping the) Mossberg due to QC/reliability issues. Looks like the 1100 and 11-87 are both fine guns, if a bit antiquated in design, but get the job done, easily come in pistol grips, and rails can be added. The 11-87 can accomodate 3 and 2.75" shells whereas the 1100 only can use 2.75." Does this really matter?

The FN SLP seems very highly regarded, but the afforable one comes only with a normal stock, though there seem to be plans for a (hopefully) easily replaceable and relatively cheap pistol grip stock in the near future. Has integral rails and ghost ring and front post, could possibly even co-witness with a red dot.

I'm not getting a Benelli. Please give me you 100% BS-free opinions on my options, am I missing any other brand, and any informed insights and opinions that might help me make a decision. Thanks!

 

[Fiv3r]

The only thing I can comment on is the shell size. Shells over 2.75" usually tend to be specialty shells. While I have only been running a shotgun for 12+ years, I have never had an instance where I felt the need to move up to a magnum shell.

You'll find all manner of buck and slug in 2.75". The shells are easier to find and cheaper to buy. If SD is what you are after, I think the difference between an attacker being shot with a 2.75 compared to a 3" is that the 2.75 will probably leave him dead, and the 3" might leave him slightly deader...but your shoulder will probably hurt more and the shell you used might cost you a few pennies more.

Just my opinion.

 

[Batty67]

Thanks, I'm hearing a lot of that. Argues for the 1100. I mean, I suppose the capability to use a 3" magnum shell is nice to have, but is it need to have. Lots of threads about the differences between the 1100 and 11-87, but they really have not given me a lot to help make a decision.

I can likely get a NIW pistol grip Remington Tactical II and have a rail added for $800 or so shipped to my FFL, or a stock FN SLP for about 1K but no pistol grip, but it has the rail.

 

[ActionJax]

I LOVE the top-mounted safety of my Mossberg. I can SEE it in my peripheral vision, plus my thumb activates it while my trigger finger stays STRAIGHT. With the Remington, you need to push a bent finger towards the trigger to hit the safety -- not a good idea in my mind. I would stay AWAY from Mossberg if you want a pistol grip, as having your thumb wrapped around the grip makes the safety hard to get to.

I'm not worried about the QC issues at all. (I do have a 590A1 pump, though....)

YMMV

 

[ForumSurfer]

Because of 10 years ago LASIK issues (dominent right eye weaker and fatigues easily), I need to shoot both eyes open and am heavily leaning toward a shotgun with a rail so I can add an easy to acquire, low-profile red dot like a Burris Fastfire.

I have the same exact problem. One good thing that came of it? I learned to shoot really well left handed! I'll say two things here:

1. See an eye doctor and make sure you don't need lenses.
2. Even though I have the same problem, I find that I can pop those little orange skeet all day long with a regular old brass bead. After shooting my shotguns regularly in this condition, I have no desire nor specific NEED to go buy ghost rings or fast fires nor any other sighting doo-dads. The regular old bead is fast and deadly at defense and skeet ranges. But if you want those other things, that is fine...but rest assured you don't really need them. The only thing I have considered is a scope and dedicating one of my 1100's as a slug gun...I do have trouble at distance.

The 11-87 can accomodate 3 and 2.75" shells whereas the 1100 only can use 2.75." Does this really matter?

IMHO, no...here's why:

will be a tactical/HD semiautomatic

You aren't bird hunting or an aspiring trap shooter. 2 3/4" gets the job done. Truth be told, you'd rather be shooting 2 3/4" in a self defense role, anyway. There's no reason nor benefit with using 3" vs 2 3/4" in self defense distance.

 

[Batty67]

Forumsurfer, and all, thanks for the advice.

Can't complain too much about the vision issue, I was legally blind (as a bat) before LASIK and with both eyes open I'm 20/20. My right eye had a tough time healing however, and ended up 20/40 and fatigues easily and "ghosts" with bright lights. Left eye no issues and is crystal-clear 20/20, but I'm totally right eye dominant. Wish my left and right eyes were switched I suppose.

So, both eyes open was an easy fix for handgun shooting, and I got a SPARC and added a rail to my modern M1 carbine. With peep sights, I start strong but shooting right eye-only becomes a problem quickly. Even with a fine 2 MOA reticle, it "doubles" and blurs a bit but is acceptable. So a SPARC/quality 2 MOA dot is the cheapest I can go on red dots or they aren't worth the trouble.

Ideally, I'd like a ghost ring to co-witness with the red dot so I can shoot slugs semi-accurately. Truth be told, I LIKE shooting with red dots too, so that's going to happen.

But any opinions on the FN SLP vs. R1100 or R 11-87?

 

[rule303]

I sell a lot of shotguns, and in my opinion lately you are far more likely to get a gun that works right out of the box from Mossberg than Remington. The 1100 design is solid, but outdated and heavy compared to the more modern designs. The 930 is a heck of a gun, especially at its price point. If you can swing it, the FN is a very nice gun also, but in my opinion, for that money, a Beretta is a better option.

 

[benzy2]

I've got a 930 and love it. It isn't the HD model but rather their water fowl model. It has cycled everything factory loaded. I played around with some extremely soft 3/4oz hand loads and they were inconsistent cycling but that was to be expected. I wouldn't worry about 3" shells for anything that doesn't require steel shot. If you aren't restricted to steel, 2 3/4" will work just fine. I've got a friend with an 1100 that cycles everything well fine too. I've never seen it stop. He claims the orings look terrible and that it shouldn't cycle with how they look, but it keeps going. I'm not sure if he makes that up to make me envious or not, but in the shooting we've done together, I've never seen it hiccup. The FN is well made but I have no direct experience with it. I think honestly you would be fine with most any of them.

 

[oneounceload]

I need to shoot both eyes open

You should be doing that anyway - it is the proper way to shoot a shotgun

I like pistol grips, but not a deal breaker.

If you mean a PGO, they are wrist breakers and not as effective as a regular stock

Has integral rails and ghost ring and front post, could possibly even co-witness with a red dot.

Just how far is your HD distance? You keep adding more mall ninja gizmos, and the handling goes to hell VERY quickly

Any of the 4 brands you mentioned will do the job - make sure you budget enough for ammo and lessons

 

[zhyla]

As oneounceload alludes to, a standard bead should do you just fine despite your eye issues. The red dot may seem cool but is unnecessary and probably detracts from efficient target acquisition.

Have you considered a pump instead of a semi-auto? Other than being a little easier on your shoulder I don't see any meaningful benefit to a semi-auto for home defense.

 

[ForumSurfer]

My right eye had a tough time healing however, and ended up 20/40 and fatigues easily and "ghosts" with bright lights. Left eye no issues and is crystal-clear 20/20, but I'm totally right eye dominant. Wish my left and right eyes were switched I suppose.

Yep, that is me.

ven with a fine 2 MOA reticle, it "doubles" and blurs a bit but is acceptable. So a SPARC/quality 2 MOA dot is the cheapest I can go on red dots or they aren't worth the trouble.

PM me with what you think about that sparc. I'm looking for a cheap red dot for plinking on my 22's. My last eotech on my AR resembled a non uniform red blob in the center for me, yet not so with family members. Do-able, but annoying. Faulty eyes, not faulty equipment.

But any opinions on the FN SLP vs. R1100 or R 11-87?

Honestly, no. I have 3 1100's (all gifted). I love my 1100's. I've shot the other 2 in question, but not enough to form an opinion for my own purchase, much less offer you my 2 cents. Both were smooth and a blast to shoot, though. I think all three are nice and there's not really a wrong choice here.

 

[Batty67]

Thanks for the continued input. I'm talking about a pistol grip rifle stock combination. I'd never use a pure pistol grip shotgun unless I had no choice. I love shooting my M1 carbine with choate PG/rifle stock. What are the pros vs. cons of a rifle stock shotgun alone vs. a combination stock and pistol grip.

Okay, this is a really NEWBIE question. Is a ghost ring and front post intended to be shot both eyes open? I thought, and man I feel fricking ignorant, that they would serve effectively like a peep sight = one eye only for more distance shooting. I know from personal experience that peep sights on my m1 carbine wear my right eye out quickly.

I get it: with a good bead and practice, and both eyes open, a good shotgun with good accuracy and practice should easily be enough for typical HD ranges. But I like shooting outside, even my pistols, so I'd like to challenge myself and hit more distant targerts, so would a ghost ring and front post rig help with that? And if that works, why wouldn't a small (and Burris Fastfiresd are light and very low profile) work? Works like a charm on my M1 carbine.

I guess I thought I could do better than a 930 SPX but did not want to spend for a Benelli. My research and some personal input is that the 1100 is a step-up, and an FN-SLP is a bigger step. I could get a new FN SLP shipped for just under a grand. A new R1100 with rail attached for about $800. But no pistol grip on the SLP, but which has an integral rail and ghost ring.

With all the crap people attach to their shotguns, like side saddles, tac lights, etc., a tiny Fastfire on a rail seems trivial... But I AM a newbie. School me, please.

 

[benzy2]

I'm not sure the 1100 is a step up from a 930.

A ghost ring can be used with both eyes open or with one eye closed. The rear ring is big and fast. While it is meant to be more accurate than just a front bead, it is meant for speed with both eyes open and not the precision of the small opening aperture sights. It works very well at shotgun distances.

 

[451 Detonics]

I like the 1100 best of all the choices presented. I have been using mine for all manner of clays as well as 3 gun and combat shotgun matches. In probably close to 100,000 rounds I have replaced the o rings 4 times and the friction rings once. I am an HK school trained armorer and was an HK dealer for many years but even tho I shot Benelli Super 90's a good bit I always went back to the 1100.

I do keep a HK/Benelli 121M for HD but that is because if you don't know what you are doing you will never get it loaded quickly...a plus if it falls into unauthorized hands.

My biggest complaint about the Super 90's is the same one i have with any recoil operated shotgun, if you dfon't have a tight to the shoulder grip leaning into the gun it can short stroke and fail to feed. In competitions when a stage may have you on one foot, off balance, trying to lean around a barricade to hit a target it does make a difference.

This is my 1100, mods include:
A 26 inch Hastings Wad Lock barrel. This barrel is outfitted with straight rifling eliminating all spin...patterns very tight and evenly.
Choate 10+1 extension, the 26 barrel allows this and matches the length of the mag perfectly.
Speedfeed Pistol Grip stock, the pistol grip makes it feel the same as my rifles I use for competitions plus allows a very firm grip pulling the gun into the shoulder. It also allows more reliable functioning when forced to hold looser as in the above scenario. Stock also holds 4 rounds, normally I keep slugs in it.

Future plans include a Burris Fastbead which mounts between the buttstock and receiver.



There is a reason the 1100 is still the number 1 choice among multiple gun competitors.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I was in the same position myself minus the desire to have tactical accessories. I was leaning to the 930 SPX till I handled one, the trigger group on most guns wobble, it works but I don't like the feeling of it plus the synthetic forearm has extremely aggressive checkering that I would want to wear gloves to shoot it for fun.

The FN is too much for me so I only thought about it but thats it.

The Remington 11-87 I've heard (Just heard calm down) that it has reliability issues and I didn't feel like I needed the 3" shells espcially after shooting some through my pump.

I settled on a Remington 1100 Deer gun with rifle sights and smooth bore and just added an extension and I'm happy with it. Only thing I don't like about it is that the slide release has to be pressed to put a shell into the magazine which slows down reloading, I'll eventually get an extended release to help reloading.

My overall opinion? Get the 1100, you'll be happy with it.

 

[451 Detonics]

I was never an 11-87 fan either, it did have some issues the 1100 was never affected by. The extended releases do work but I have used the standard so long I just automatically hit it with a shell when reloading, doesn't really slow me down at all.

The Remington 1100 Tac 4 would be a great starter shotgun.

 

[villageidiot357]

If you want a pistol grip don't go with the 930, the safety is in the wrong place.

I have had one half a year and I am happy with it. It has held up in several 3 gun matches. It might not be the prettiest thing, but it works. I am pretty new to the sport, but I have been surprised how guns that otherwise seem reliable just don't seem to hold when you start trying to shoot fast.