Interstate Travel, East Coast VT to FL

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Nick C.

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Hello all,

So my father passed last Monday, and I've been up in Vermont for the last 12 days settling everything. Gotta drive back tomorrow, with a rental car, and I have 7 guns I want to get back to Florida with me. One is an AK/Vepr, pump shotgun, lever 30-30, two .22s, and two handguns, glock 21 and M&P Shield and a bunch of scary black mags. I have to drive through some unfriendly territory, NY/Tri-State area, etc. I was going to FFL the AK back and pistols but I don't want to have to transfer them to myself at an FFL down in FL. The guy at the local shop up here said I can ship the AK to myself via UPS, and gave me a good sturdy box. He also said I can just disassemble the pistols and seperate the parts and they essentially are non operational. Do both these solutions sound right legally? I've never had to deal with this many firearms before traveling. Thanks in advance for any guidance.
 
I-81, I-77, I-26, I-95, I-4 to home. It may be a little longer but safer.

I absolutely will be taking 81. Thats always been my go to. Still gotta go through NY though. I field stripped the pistols and seperated the slide parts and slide from the frame. Hopefully it's good enough. Going to the UPS shipping center tomorrow and going to inquire about shipping the long gun to myself.
 
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I was going to FFL the AK back and pistols but I don't want to have to transfer them to myself at an FFL down in FL.
Legally you have to do that anyway, unless those guns were bequeathed to you in his will.
The guy at the local shop up here said I can ship the AK to myself via UPS, and gave me a good sturdy box.
He's wrong. UPS will no longer ship firearms for a non FFL. https://www.ups.com/assets/resources/webcontent/en_US/terms_service_us.pdf#page=7
He also said I can just disassemble the pistols and seperate the parts and they essentially are non operational.
Disassembled or not makes no difference legally. FOPA protects you (at least theoretically) while transporting those guns through states like NY. Just don't stop overnight, or at all if you can help it.
 
Legally you have to do that anyway, unless those guns were bequeathed to you in his will. He's wrong. UPS will no longer ship firearms for a non FFL. https://www.ups.com/assets/resources/webcontent/en_US/terms_service_us.pdf#page=7
Disassembled or not makes no difference legally. FOPA protects you (at least theoretically) while transporting those guns through states like NY. Just don't stop overnight, or at all if you can help it.

Thank you. Alright, about state law here,
There seems to be no restrictions on transfers between immediate family. He had no will, and verbally agreed to transfer them to me long before this happened. What are your thoughts on this statute?

BACKGROUND CHECKS, 13 V.S.A. § 4019

Under Vermont’s new gun laws, an unlicensed person cannot “transfer” a firearm (meaning transfer ownership of a firearm by sale, trade, or gift) to another unlicensed person without the assistance of a licensed firearms dealer, unless an exception applies. The law exempts certain transfers, including transfers of a firearm by or to a law enforcement officer and transfers of a firearm from one immediate family member to another immediate family member.
 
Thank you. Alright, about state law here,
There seems to be no restrictions on transfers between immediate family. He had no will, and verbally agreed to transfer them to me long before this happened. What are your thoughts on this statute?

BACKGROUND CHECKS, 13 V.S.A. § 4019

Under Vermont’s new gun laws, an unlicensed person cannot “transfer” a firearm (meaning transfer ownership of a firearm by sale, trade, or gift) to another unlicensed person without the assistance of a licensed firearms dealer, unless an exception applies. The law exempts certain transfers, including transfers of a firearm by or to a law enforcement officer and transfers of a firearm from one immediate family member to another immediate family member.
Maybe one of the legal experts will chime in on whether a verbal "will" counts. As far as transfers between family, the state law isn't the issue here. If you're from Florida and the guns are in VT, you can't legally transfer them without an FFL. That's a federal law and there is no exception for family members.
 
When someone dies without a will, the decedent’s properly would pass to whomever is entitled to it under state intestacy law. Pre-demise verbal instructions or writings that don’t satisfy legal requirements for a will have no legal effect.
I don't know if this is the case here, but how would that work if the OP was the only heir? How would he go about getting those firearms "transferred"? Would that be a matter of taking them to an FFL and basically having them transferred from himself to himself?
 
sincerest condolences to nick c.

i am certain that nick c. will need to pay for some vermont legal advice regarding the intestate disposition of all of his late father’s property, which also includes firearms.

ffl transfers are costly and troublesome but secure and worry-free.

putting aside ffl transfers for the moment, whenever one drives through the northeastern seaboard with firearms especially it’s best to know/follow the law (see https://www.handgunlaw.us/), unload & completely secure all firearms in a locked container, drive unobtrusively, defensively and safely, scrupulously comply with traffic rules (e.g. no speeding, no tailgating, no inoperative tail lamps), stop only to gas-up as close as possible to the highway, and don’t get into traffic accidents.

he can and should postal-mail any ten+ round mags to himself in florida.

driving with ammo is ok afaik.

no advice that is contrary to any law is intended or offered here.
 
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.he may still wish to ffl-transfer any remotely “tactical” firearm and should certainly mail any ten+ round mags to himself in florida.
"Tactical" has absolutely no bearing on legally transferring the weapons. It's just as illegal to do a private interstate transfer sans FFL with a single shot .22 as it is with a belt fed semi auto AR.
driving with ammo is ok afaik.
So is driving with the rest of the weapons. I do agree about your driving advice. The less possibility of interaction with LE, the better.
 
I won't get into Federal law re: interstate transfers and ownership, but rifles can still be shipped via the post office.

Some of the states you will need to drive through have pretty strict laws about possessing what they consider "assault weapons".
 
"Tactical" has absolutely no bearing on legally transferring the weapons. It's just as illegal to do a private interstate transfer sans FFL with a single shot .22 as it is with a belt fed semi auto AR.
So is driving with the rest of the weapons. I do agree about your driving advice. The less possibility of interaction with LE, the better.

thank you, i self corrected. my simultaneously edited post is better.
 
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...how would that work if the OP was the only heir...

I don't want to address the OP's situation directly, because I can't be sure that I have all material information. But in general, any gift of a firearm from a resident of one State to a resident of another must go through an FFL, usually in the recipient's State of residence.

But whenever an inheritance is involved, things can get complicated. Qualified legal counsel is always the best idea. And of course how complex a given case will be related to the size and nature of the assets in the estate. But inheritance is not necessarily a simple matter.

Here's roughly how inheritance works:

  1. When there's a written will, it normally must be submitted to probate in court (although in some States there are exemptions for small or very simple estates).

    • The will ordinarily designates an executor (i. e., the personal representative of the decedent). That person is not the executor unless and until the will is admitted to probate in the proper court and the court issues Letters Testamentary recognizing that person as executor.

    • The executor once qualified then proceeds to identify and account for the assets of the estate. He may need to collect debts owed the decedent and manage property or other assets of the estate. He might also need to sell assets of the estate to raise funds to pay debts of the decedent and/or taxes. He or she then pays debts and taxes of the decedent under court supervision.

    • The executor then handles, again under court supervision, distribution of the assets of the estate in accordance with the terms of the written will to the persons designated in the will to receive them.

  2. Intestate succession when someone dies without a will is not some informal dividing up of the decedent's property amongst the relatives. It's a highly formalized procedure.

    • First, someone has to go to the proper court and apply to be named the administrator (i. e., the personal representative of the decedent to wind up the estate) of the decedent's estate.

    • Once the court has issued an order designating someone as the administrator, that person proceeds to identify and account for the assets of the estate. He or she then uses those assets to pay any remaining debts of the decedent and any taxes due. This is all done under the supervision of the court.

    • After the debts and taxes are paid, the administrator, under court supervision, will distribute any remaining assets to those relatives entitled under the applicable statutes to a share of the estate. Only those relatives specifically identified in the applicable statutes are entitled to a share of the decedent's property, and only in the proportion set out in the applicable statutes.

  3. So --

    • If there's a will, the gun will ultimately go to whomever the will says it goes to, and it will be up to the executor to deliver, as approved by the probate court and in compliance with applicable law, the gun to that person.

    • If there's no will the gun actually belongs to whomever would get it under the applicable intestate succession law, and the gun would be transferred by the administrator to the recipient as approved by the probate court and in compliance with applicable law

It's true that often, if there's not a lot of property involved, the relatives don't bother with the formalities and just divide everything up. That usually works out as long as no one complains, but it's not necessarily legal. And if there are conflicting claims on the property or if the decedent left significant debts or unpaid taxes, informality could result in serious complications down the road. And there can be other complications if regulated property is involved.
 
I don't want to address the OP's situation directly, because I can't be sure that I have all material information. But in general, any gift of a firearm from a resident of one State to a resident of another must go through an FFL, usually in the recipient's State of residence.

But whenever an inheritance is involved, things can get complicated. Qualified legal counsel is always the best idea. And of course how complex a given case will be related to the size and nature of the assets in the estate. But inheritance is not necessarily a simple matter.

Here's roughly how inheritance works:

  1. When there's a written will, it normally must be submitted to probate in court (although in some States there are exemptions for small or very simple estates).
    • The will ordinarily designates an executor (i. e., the personal representative of the decedent). That person is not the executor unless and until the will is admitted to probate in the proper court and the court issues Letters Testamentary recognizing that person as executor.

    • The executor once qualified then proceeds to identify and account for the assets of the estate. He may need to collect debts owed the decedent and manage property or other assets of the estate. He might also need to sell assets of the estate to raise funds to pay debts of the decedent and/or taxes. He or she then pays debts and taxes of the decedent under court supervision.

    • The executor then handles, again under court supervision, distribution of the assets of the estate in accordance with the terms of the written will to the persons designated in the will to receive them.

  2. Intestate succession when someone dies without a will is not some informal dividing up of the decedent's property amongst the relatives. It's a highly formalized procedure.
    • First, someone has to go to the proper court and apply to be named the administrator (i. e., the personal representative of the decedent to wind up the estate) of the decedent's estate.

    • Once the court has issued an order designating someone as the administrator, that person proceeds to identify and account for the assets of the estate. He or she then uses those assets to pay any remaining debts of the decedent and any taxes due. This is all done under the supervision of the court.

    • After the debts and taxes are paid, the administrator, under court supervision, will distribute any remaining assets to those relatives entitled under the applicable statutes to a share of the estate. Only those relatives specifically identified in the applicable statutes are entitled to a share of the decedent's property, and only in the proportion set out in the applicable statutes.

  3. So --
    • If there's a will, the gun will ultimately go to whomever the will says it goes to, and it will be up to the executor to deliver, as approved by the probate court and in compliance with applicable law, the gun to that person.

    • If there's no will the gun actually belongs to whomever would get it under the applicable intestate succession law, and the gun would be transferred by the administrator to the recipient as approved by the probate court and in compliance with applicable law

It's true that often, if there's not a lot of property involved, the relatives don't bother with the formalities and just divide everything up. That usually works out as long as no one complains, but it's not necessarily legal. And if there are conflicting claims on the property or if the decedent left significant debts or unpaid taxes, informality could result in serious complications down the road. And there can be other complications if regulated property is involved.

Thank you for the replies. House and finances were jointly owned with his girlfriend of 23 years, my brother and I are going to sign whatever we have to in order for her to stay there and keep everything for now, and get it all into a trust for later. We're pretty tight knit small family. The old man didn't have a lot of assets. She basically said to just take anything we wanted of my fathers while we were there. We aren't going to worry about probate or anything like that. So I used to live in the same state. Theoretically for the sake of arguement if they had been "gifted" to me while I was a state resident, I wouldn't have had to transfer them and then would have been able to do whatever I needed to with them?
 
Thank you for the replies. House and finances were jointly owned with his girlfriend of 23 years, my brother and I are going to sign whatever we have to in order for her to stay there and keep everything for now, and get it all into a trust for later. We're pretty tight knit small family. The old man didn't have a lot of assets. She basically said to just take anything we wanted of my fathers while we were there. We aren't going to worry about probate or anything like that. So I used to live in the same state. Theoretically for the sake of arguement if they had been "gifted" to me while I was a state resident, I wouldn't have had to transfer them and then would have been able to do whatever I needed to with them?

All of that is pretty much beside the point. I'm certainly not going to comment on whether or not all of that's okay.

And we're not going to discuss hypotheticals.

So we're done here.
 
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