IPSC Production questions

[Glocky]

Maybe someone out there can clarify some IPSC rules that I cannot determine which rulebook applies.
1. IPSC in Georgia rules, whichever book is applicable?
Production class need to know's

2. Holster's-rules say, not race gun type, exactly what does that mean? CR Speed, Houge styles are not allowed?

3. Magazine capicity, 2 rulebooks say "no" but shooters at some of the local clubs say you can only load 10 in the mag, what rulebook does that come from?

4. Sights, are fibre optic styles allowed on Glocks for instance, they are still technically post & notch designs?

5. G34 & 35, are they allowed, didn't see them on the "list"

any help will be appreiciated and possibly prevent some MD wearing a popper.

:banghead:

 

[MoNsTeR]

1. USPSA
2. correct
3. only 10rds, see USPSA book
4. many people use them, official rulings are nebulous
5. yes, they are on the list

 

[Lochaber]

Some more info ..

New rules are about to come out, making the issue a bit more clear. Old ones are still in effect for now. As of RIGHT NOW there is no pistol list as far as I can tell, that would be a feature of the new rules. Holsters will be required to cover at least to the bottom of the ejection port and cover the trigger, though that makes the Beretta kinda funny with its "ejection port".

Under current rules you can only ever load 10 rounds in your mags. You can start with 10+1 but you must take a 10rd mag, rack a round in the chamber, then replace the mag with a full one, or holdster top of the mag, draw and reinsert mag then reholdster. Obviously this is stupid. The new rules will allow you to have 11rd in a mag BUT you can only have 10 in any mag at the start signal, so you can load that extra round in your first mag so you don't have to top it off.

The production list will be based of the IPSC (international) one with a few additions. So far the USPSA version will add the G34, G35, and XD guns to the list.

To my reading, the sights can be changed as you want (under USPSA rules) but under IPSC rules you get to keep what the factory put on them.

Loch

 

[Bergeron]

So, would it be permissible to add a mag well to pistol that came without one? How about replacing the sights?

 

[another okie]

I thought I read in Front Sight that the board had changed that 10 + 1 rule.

 

[Hoser]

If you plan on doing any international shooting you will need to use the IPSC rulebook. If not, than the USPSA exemptions within the IPSC rulebook are what you need to go by.

Holsters. Cant be anything like a CR Speed or Hogue. Need to be something like a Blade Tech or Uncle Mikes. For holsters think IDPA.

Mag Cap. IPSC says no restrictions. Yes, that 17+1 in everywhere but here in the US. Till the new rulebook is out, you cant have more than 10 rounds in any mag. So you have to use a barney bullet. No big deal really.

Sights. Fibre Optic sights are legal in production. As long as they are post and notch. No ghost rings.

The list. IPSC used the list, USPSA does not. USPSA adopted the IPSC box for production. If it meets all Production criteria and fits in the box, you are legal.

Mag wells can not be added unless they are a factory avail option.

Different sights can be added such as fixed to adjustable, but you cant do any milling to the slide to make it work. Thats considered external work.

Common problems I have seen; plugs in Glocks, low mounted Bo-Mars in Glocks and XD's, sprayed on grit to the grips, grinding on grips, mag pouches and gun not behind hip.

Hope this helps,
Tom Freeman
FY-36139

 

[Bergeron]

Thanks for the reply, but I think that I'm going to have to get a little more specific in my questions.

I've got a USP9F, and would like to start shooting USPSA. With that said, I would like to optimize the pistol for USPSA production class, and here's what I am looking at doing:

Add HK mag well: This is offered on the Expert and Elite USP models, so it seems that it would be legal to install. Is this correct?

Add ambi saftey/decocker: Again, this is offered on other USP models, seems like it ought to be legal.

Add HK factory adjustable sights: Same issue, but as I understand your post, it would only be legal to install them in the style of the USP Tactical, which uses the same sight cut as my fixed sight USP. It appears that if I were to have them installed in the manner of the USP Expert, which uses a milled out, low profile installation, that I would not be legal.

Trigger Job: Seems like no problem.

Magazines: As I understand it, currently USPSA has a 10 round limit in Production, but is planning on going to full capacity magazines. Is this correct? If so, are the magazines limited to 126mm or 140mm? It would also appear from your post that aftermarket base pad extensions are not legal.

This brings up my last question. I understand that Para-Ordanance magazines fit in USP40/9 frames. Would it be legal to modifiy Para-Ord 9mm magazines to work in the USP, or would this be considered an external modification?

Thanks

 

[Jim Watson]

I seem to have mislaid my rule book, but in my opinion

Mag well funnel off a different model - No.

Ambi safety - Are you lefthanded? If so, why not just a lefthanded decocker? You must begin hammer down and start DA in Production.

Adjustable sights - As you say, ok in the factory dovetail, if it doesn't make the gun too tall to fit the Box. But I find adjustable sights no advantage. If a fixed sight is on for a common load at the usual ranges, it is as good as anything, plus cheaper and stronger.

Trigger work - Fine.

Magazine lengths - IDPA guns have to fit the Box with mag in place. Do USPSA?

Other brand magazines - Why? I HOPE that USPSA does not drop the 10 round limit until and unless the AWB expires, at which time you can buy H&K magazines. Or it does not and you use 10 shot H&K mags.

But all that is secondary.
You have not even started shooting and you are already operating at the bedroll lawyer level. Take your perfectly adequate gun to some matches and call back about "C" class.

 

[Bergeron]

Thanks for the reply. I'll try to be less of a lawyer (eewww), I just like messing with my guns as much as shooting them.

I'm fine with the 10-round mag limit, just curious about an idea that I've been having to get more capacity in general.

Even one handed, I prefer to rest my firing hand thumb on the saftey, hence the question about the safties.

Bummer about the mag well, I had thought that would be a cool, quick, and cheap mod. Oh well.

I've shot my pistol with the fixed sights with the dots, and compared it
pistols with the HK "Bomar" style adjustables, and find the HK adjustable sight picture to be a little bit better.

There are some (relatively) local weekly practice USPSA matches, and I've learned a bit by going to them. I know that none of those mods will make me a better shooter, the mods just intrest me.

 

[Tim Burke]

I thought I read in Front Sight that the board had changed that 10 + 1 rule.

You did, and they have agreed to do so. The implementation of the change will be when the new rule book comes out. Until then, you can't put your Barney bullet in the magazine until after you've chambered a round. There will still be a 10 round limit in production... some of the posts seem to suggest that there won't be a limit in Production.

 

[Tim Burke]

Double-tap

 

[Hoser]

Steve is 100% correct. The 10 round limit will not go away in USPSA as there is some states with a 10 round limit regardless of if the AWB goes away. You can download high caps and be legal.

Using Para mags is illegal as HK doesent offer their guns with Para mags.

If HK offers your pistol with the mag well and ambi safety as an option, then you are legal.

USPSA/IPSC production has no limit on mag length. If the factory made it, its legal.

 

[Bergeron]

OK, cool.

One more question. I already have one of those two-piece belts that attach by way of velcro. Does the belt have to go through belt loops, and can it be two piece?

 

[Hoser]

Inner/outer belt are legal in IPSC/USPSA, but are illegal in IDPA.

 

[Ankeny]

I don't have my rulebook in front of me, but I believe in USPSA the inner belt must pass through a minimum of three belt loops.