Iron Sights; for night use on a rifle

[Risasi]

Alright, this is kind of a weird question. And I tried searching for an answer last night, but came up with very little. (One reason is because searching for "XS" yields zero results). My intention is to have a non-battery solution for aiming at night, for some AR builds I am doing. (But not limited to AR's) Yeah, yeah. I know there are some non-battery Trijicon red dots. But I want something I can put on every rifle I have. And since I'm building four AR's right now, that adds up pretty quick.


Anyway, from what little I gathered people who have used the XS sights like them. Almost universally they say skip the rear sight, just worry about the front post. Which makes sense, you would just sort of aim down the barrel like a shotgun.

So I am looking for people who have used these type of sights:

http://www.xssights.com/store/tactical.html

http://www.opticsplanet.net/trijicon-night-sight-sets-for-ar15-m16-cp25.html





1. The general consensus is skip the rear ghost ring, only use the front post?

2. When trying to use with NV equipment these sights will be way too bright?

3. When someone else with NV equipment looks at you, and you have a rifle so equipped, you will stand out like a christmas tree?



Anybody have anything to add to this? Or confirm the three statements above are actually true?

I intend to use flat top upper receivers. I would like to free float the barrel, however I also like the standard F style front sight base, so I am at a bit of an impasse. I'm stuck on which non-battery sighting system to go with. Anybody got their .02c to add?

 

[Bwana John]

I have a FAL with tritium inserts, a very bright green dot front sight, and a M16A2 type flip rear aperture that has two small dull T3 dots on either side of the large aperture.

They have a very high coolness factor.

The only time I actually used them was for shooting at radio controlled planes and tannerite with tracers at a night time machine gun shoot.
I never hit an airplane, the tracers alone were enough to see where I was shooting.
Where they did help was shooting tannerite at night that was lit by a glow stick.

The only bummer is the tritium goes dark pretty fast, I think its half life is ~12 years, and Im pretty sure the sights dont get filled with new T3.

 

[TexasRifleman]

1. The general consensus is skip the rear ghost ring, only use the front post?

2. When trying to use with NV equipment these sights will be way too bright?

3. When someone else with NV equipment looks at you, and you have a rifle so equipped, you will stand out like a christmas tree?

I have them on my shorty M14.

1) Yes, front blade only
2) Yes they will wash out NV equipment
3) Maybe. The post on my M14 only has the tritium dot facing the shooter.
How much light would bleed out to the sides and be picked up by an adversary with NV equipment I couldn't say but that's way low on my list of things to worry about.

Overall I like them very much, but the sights glow is quite dim. You have to be in pretty much total darkness for them to be effective. Any ambient light at all and the glow isn't that noticeable.

 

[Risasi]

Okay, thanks. That helps. Do you know what brand you guys are using?

 

[tiger146]

I've got the XS Sights on my AR. Tritium on the front only. They make one with the dot or a vertical line. I've got the vertical line. They definitely the way to go for night nights.

 

[BADUNAME13]

1. yes
2. They will wash out a small region around the site, but you will still be able to see. (With Gen 3 and Gen 3+ NVG's)

3. No, not from a 90 degree or better angle. If they are BEHIND you however...

I have used XS, Tridjacon(SP?), and Mepro (SP?)

 

[TexasRifleman]

Do you know what brand you guys are using?

My M14 has an XS front blade.

 

[Risasi]

Okay, I think I'm going to put the XS 24/7 front sight on all my AR's then. Vertical line style.

I figure when used in combination with a pressure switch light it should make for a potent package.

I want these rifles to be light, general do anything rigs. So that included property defense. However the more I consider that I might be worried about NV giving me away, if I have some goblin running around with NV on I'm already in trouble.


Thanks guys.

 

[Kharn]

How do the AR sights adjust for elevation, while still keeping the tritium facing to the rear?

Kharn

 

[Sistema1927]

I have the full set of XS tritium sights on my AR, front post and rear dots. Nice arrangement. I don't have NVG, so that isn't a consideration for me. As to adjusting front sight elevation, you need to do it in full circle increments.

 

[tiger146]

kahrn,

You still adjust the front sight for elevation, but you do a complete turn not 1/4 turns like the std front sight. For a defensive rifle this is fine, probably not a iron sight comp gun.

 

[Risasi]

Tiger is exactly right.

This is from AO FAQ's:

FAQ #5

Sighting in AR’s with Tritium front sights

The original round front sight of the AR-15/M-16 rifle was a round post that used one of 5 detent notches for elevation. The thread pitch of the screw is such that a 1/5th rotation of the post moved point of impact approximately 1 inch at 100 yards.

When the round post was changed out in favor of a square post the number of detent notches was correspondingly reduced to 4. The fact that the reduced number of notches increased the amount of movement from 1 to 1.25 was more than compensated by the better front sight presentation.

Our 24/7 Stripe or Dot front sights require a full 360-degree rotation to present the face correctly to the shooter. This translates to a 5 or 7-inch change in point of impact per revolution, depending whether you have a standard or short barrel configuration sight radius. At first this may appear to cause problems but in reality that will not be the case. If you are 5 inches from desired point of impact then the new setting will bring you exactly on line. The furthest out you will be is half of the sight shift, meaning 2.5 to 3.5 inches.

The majority of the rifles and carbines made today have the new A2 style rear sight assembly. The range cam can be disengaged from the elevation mechanism so the 1-minute elevation per click may be employed to correct any remaining problems. The Allen screw to do this can be accessed through that large hole in the rear sight assembly that is just in front of the aperture (now you know what the heck that hole is for).

Even without this ability the fact that the groups most of these rifles generate at this distance are in the 2 to 3 M.O.A. size will allow you to place the zero somewhere between the center and the top edge of the dot at 40 yards..

You must also consider the fact that 100 +yard shots are at the far end of the spectrum in which these rifles are employed by most people and Law Enforcement personnel. When used as a patrol rifle by Law Enforcement personnel it is to supplement their handgun (ranges contact to 15 yards) or extend their zone beyond that realm (25-75 yards). At 50 yards the problem of sight shift is halved and at 25 yards it is now back in the 1.25” (1.75” for shorties) inch per revolution range.

Recommended sight in range is 40 yards.

With Dot type front sights, adjust so that the center of the dot is as near the point of impact as possible. As the range increases the bullet’s arc will cause it to rise to near the top edge of the dot at the 120 to 150-yard point (depending on ammunition). Beyond that point the bullet’s arc will bring it back down to center of the dot at approximately 250 yards.

Bold added by me...

In my particular case I am building AR rigs for practical use. While I still intend that they should be accurate, I am not going to build rifles that will shoot sub-MOA. If they do, great! But as long as they end up around 1.5" 10-shot groups at 100 yards I'll be happy. And these sights are there to give me an advantage in low-light/night scenarios.

I anticipate this kind of setup would be used for target shooting. And also varmints or goblins that go bump in the night, or even societal disorder (think LA riots, weather disaster, zombie raids, SHTF, etc). Generally that means fairly close engagement ranges too. Likely I'll also be hanging dot sighting systems, or low power forward mount scopes to these rifles also, but I want a decent backup that will function day or night, in all sorts of inclement weather.