Is 4 milk jugs deep enough penetration for hunting humanely?

[bhhacker]

I just got back from the range after having saved up (and getting griped at by the missus) a bunch of milk jugs.


I took my 30-06 and my home rolled ammo to the range for some testing today. At about 20 yards, I fired and was able to recover the bullet in the 4th milk jug. The other 3 looked pretty destroyed but i was surprised that was as far as it went.


I am using 150 grain Hornady SST bullet, 48 grains of H4895, and federal primers.


Is this enough for deer? I was hoping to get some more opinions on this before taking it out hunting

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

You've got a 30-06 with a good 150gr hunting bullet-you'll do fine as long as you're a good shot and know how to hunt

 

[gamestalker]

A 22lr will drop a deer if the shot is placed correctly, so a 30-06 and 150 gr. projectile will definitely deliver plenty of penetration for a deer. I've seen numerous elk taken with that combination with the 30-06.

GS

 

[mljdeckard]

Four? Probably. It's worrying about that FIFTH jug coming after you for revenge that gets you every time.

Buy a box of premium ballistic-tipped ammo. It will work.

 

[Double_J]

NO, it needs at least 5 milk jugs to safely and humanely drop a deer. LOL.

I would say you are doing good with the load you have right there as long as you can put the bullet in the right spot at the range you will be shooting. Deer are not that hard to kill if you take your time and shoot right.

 

[Ar180shooter]

I just got back from the range after having saved up (and getting griped at by the missus) a bunch of milk jugs.


I took my 30-06 and my home rolled ammo to the range for some testing today. At about 20 yards, I fired and was able to recover the bullet in the 4th milk jug. The other 3 looked pretty destroyed but i was surprised that was as far as it went.


I am using 150 grain Hornady SST bullet, 48 grains of H4895, and federal primers.


Is this enough for deer? I was hoping to get some more opinions on this before taking it out hunting

Think about this...

How deep did the bullet go in inches, and how thick is a deer in inches?

 

[Geno]

Don't listen to them. Four is over-kill. Get yourself a .30-30 Win and save the life of that 4th milk jug! <<okay>> Seriously.

A .30-06 Sprg with a 150 grain will do dandy. Those SST projectiles are vicious! I use them in my .270 Win (SuperFormance 130 SSTs). The deer I shot at 202ish yards never took a step. The near-side lung and the heart were mutated into mush and itty bitty "chunks". The far side lung was intact. You've got a great cartridge there, and an equally great projectile. You'll drop it one shot, assuming your aim is true.

Geno

PS: You better hope there ain't no milk jug god.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

You better hope there ain't no milk jug god.

If there is I am going to burn in a special heell. But at least I will have company.

I tested .30-30 170gr Winchester factory ammo, considered a good deer killer, with gallon water jugs seperated by 1.25" phonebooks (dry). The bullet severely deformed stopped in the 2nd jug.

 

[BSA1]

You don't need a 30-06 to kill a deer at 20 yds.

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

Sure is a trick to get within 20 yards of a deer in an area that gets hunted.

 

[BCRider]

Sure is a trick to get within 20 yards of a deer in an area that gets hunted.

I'm not so sure about that. My club range has a pet deer and foals that regularly come down onto the rifle range to graze. When they appear all shooting stops and eventually someone brave enough goes out and shoos them away by yelling and waving their arms.

Generally they don't appear at the 20 yard point but it's certainly not unheard of. More typically they wander out at around 100 yards.

Often as not a few shooters don't notice them right away due to looking thru their scopes. The rifle fire doesn't even make them twitch their ears let alone lift their heads in concern.

 

[Cal-gun Fan]

I'm not so sure about that. My club range has a pet deer and foals that regularly come down onto the rifle range to graze. When they appear all shooting stops and eventually someone brave enough goes out and shoos them away by yelling and waving their arms.

Generally they don't appear at the 20 yard point but it's certainly not unheard of. More typically they wander out at around 100 yards.

Often as not a few shooters don't notice them right away due to looking thru their scopes. The rifle fire doesn't even make them twitch their ears let alone lift their heads in concern.

Sure. I've got deer like that at my range, heck we put out food for them at my cabin-they're like pets. Or a low-maintenance disaster food supply herd

But I'm talking about really goin out into the woods, where you'd hunt. Those deer generally aren't real used to people and aren't going to let you get within 20 yards of them easily. Unless you use a tree stand or something like that I suppose. But wheres the fun in that?

 

[bhhacker]

I am hunting blacktail in Juneau Alaska where shots are usually less than 30 yards therefore i shot at a comparable range.

I was just testing penetration and was asking for an opinion from shooters/reloaders that know a heck of a lot more than i do. Forgive me if what i asked was silly. I just wanted to ask before going into the woods all willy nilly with something underpowered and make a poor animal suffer.

 

[sixgunner455]

You are not underpowered with that cartridge and load. You could take your deer with that combination from anything like the range you mentioned out to your ability to hit, and be fine.

 

[DeMilled]

I am hunting blacktail in Juneau Alaska where shots are usually less than 30 yards therefore i shot at a comparable range.

I was just testing penetration and was asking for an opinion from shooters/reloaders that know a heck of a lot more than i do. Forgive me if what i asked was silly. I just wanted to ask before going into the woods all willy nilly with something underpowered and make a poor animal suffer.

Very reasonable question!

I had found web site (a while back) where there is a general consensus on the water jug to ballistic gel conversion rate; I suggest you fire up your google fu and look into it a bit.


I think a 30.06 going through only four milk jugs is a bit under powered for that cartridge.

This site has several 9MM loads going to the fourth milk jug
http://stevespages.com/page8f9mmluger.html
Specifically "9mm 124 gr Golden Saber +P fired at 1172 fps penetrated into and stopped inside the fourth water jug"

Here is the same round in ballistic gel. " 9mm 124 gr Golden Saber +P fired at 1114 fps penetrated 12.8 inches of calibrated gelatin"
http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page1834.htm


Now, I understand that comparing 9mm to 30.06 is certainly apples to oranges but I think you may agree with me that making it to just the fourth jug is not too impressive for a 30.06.

If you want a clean "through and through" on a healthy sized Black Tail you may want to keep looking into this...


Do you already suspect that the cartridges you loaded up are under powered?

Maybe going to the reloading section and posting the details of your load can let someone with more familiarity of the 30.06 give you a decent idea of your velocity and you can adjust from there?

 

[Dr.Rob]

.30-06 and a 150 gr bullet is PLENTY for deer.

 

[HB]

Its probably stopping the 4th jug because it expanded at a high velocity (and broke apart?. Basically you'll kill your game of choice from 10-800 yards with proper placement.

HB

 

[DeMilled]

Well, I guess I should have looked before I leapt...so to speak.

I just looked in my Speer 12th edition and it lists a 30.06 load using H4895 and a 150 grain bullet and your load sure is no slouch...


Carry on

 

[jim in Anchorage]

Some Friends of mine have been hunting BKtails on Hitchinbrook for 15+ years and have done very well with .270's. 5-6 a year is there normal bag. One of the .270's got a great one shot kill on coastal Brownie. Take your ought six and go kill some deer!

 

[DeMilled]

It's 3 am and this has been bugging me so I just had to look into it a little...


Water is going to give you much greater and more rapid expansion than ballistic gel will. I have read this on many site and it seems to be accepted by folks much smarter and educated than I, take it for what it is.

The 150 grain Hornady SST over your 48 grains of H4895 is cooking right along!

The Hornady SST is a ballistic tiped bullet. The darn thing came apart from pushing through that much water at that sort of speed much sooner than it would have in ballistic gel, much less a 90 to 120 pound Black Tail (unless you are going after the ones in Prince Wales, or Kodiak, which are listed at 175 to 200. Per Alaska Game and Fish http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=109). Critters have plenty of empty space, like lungs, that don't behave like ballistic gel, much less jugs of water.

The ballistic tipped SST didn't get very good penetration because it came apart, right?

bhhacker, what did the recovered bullets look like?

 

[Gtscotty]

It sounds like you've chosen a relatively light for caliber bullet designed for quick expansion, it should come as no surprise that extreme penetration is not its forte. SST's, much like Nosler Ballistic Tips, are designed to expand very quickly in medium sized game, and transfer the bulk of their energy while inside the animal. You may not always get an exit wound, but any deer that takes a high velocity 150gr SST to the lungs should get very dead, very quickly.

My hunting load a couple years ago was an 165gr SST leaving the barrel of an '06 at about 2850 fps. I shot a buck and a doe with the load. The buck was a 60 yd quartering shot, and the SST penetrated all the way through after taking out a shoulder (although it left it's Jacket under the skin on exit). The buck went about 20 yds and was down for the count. The doe was a full on broadside at 30-40 yds, and basically just flopped over at the shot, but there was no exit wound.

I guess it all depends on how much penetration you want on deer. Are you going to be picking good broadside/quartering shots, or do you want to be able to take any possible angle on the vitals that's presented? If the latter, you should probably use one of the premium bullets designed for high penetration (Interbond, Accubond, Barnes, etc.). However, if you make a point of picking good broadside/quartering shots, I really don't think you can do much better for deer than a relatively quick expanding bullet like the SST, NBT, or SGK

 

[GooseGestapo]

Finally, Gtscotty hit the nail on the head.

The SST is a fairly frangible bullet. At that close of range, the velocity on that load is in the 2,800fps range which is the upper limit of impact speed for which that bullet is intended/designed.

Extend the range to 200-300yds, and the impact will be a little less dramatic, and penetration greater. I'd expect to see it penetrate 5-6 at that range.

What you've got is a long-range bullet that is intended for light big-game. Excellent load. I typically have used IMR4064 or BLC2 for over 3,000fps from the '06. Killed over 100 deer since 1976 with the .30/06. Ranges from 40' to 275yds.

I'd suggest for the "close in" shots, use a conventional bullet. Since you like Hornady, use the 150gr Spt "Interlok". It'll hold together a little bit better, is just as accurate, and cost 50% less.

BTW; for my M-1, I use that exact same load with a 150-155gr FMJ or BtHpt match bullet. Gets 2,775-2,825fps and is guild-edged accurate.
Your load with IMR4895 is what the military used in the .30/06 for close to 50yrs.

For even better close range performance, go to a 165 or 180gr bullet, use 46.5gr with 165 and 44.0 with the 180.

My current "close range" load for the bolt action '06 is 50gr of IMR-4064 under a Prvi-Partisan 150gr Spt. Not a "tack driver" (1.5moa or so from my Colt Lt.Rifle), but an inexpensive "shooter". It dropped two does with two shots back on Jan. 18.
I bought 500 Remington 150 CorLokts back in 2006, and when I exhausted that supply, I bought a bunch of the P-P from Graf's. The Corlokts were superlative bullets. I miss them now that they're gone. They haven't been available for 2yrs now, and when they're available, they're nearly twice as expensive as the P-P's, and 50% more than the Hornady's, Speer's, and Sierra's.... They "aint that good"..... (listening Remington/Cerebus ????).
For accuracy, the Sierra's are unexcelled. However, if I expect shots over 300yds, I've got a couple of bean-field/airfield guns that get the tap. Typically, my .257wbymag or the .300RUM .... but if walking is involved maybe, the .260Rem. My problem is I've got TOO MANY CHOICES.....

 

[Carl N. Brown]

If I recall correctly what I read about military tests of 30-06 ball ammo, the service round had greater penetration in pine at 200 yards than at 50 yards: at high velocity even a FMJ deforms at 2,700 fps, but stays intact and pentrates like crazy at 2,000 to 2,100 fps.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Milk jugs?

When my late uncle wanted to test penetration he would line a shoe box with wax paper then fill it with mud about the consistency of bread dough. Loam or clay is preferable to sand. That way you don't have milk jugs (I'm assuming plastic) cluttering up the house.

Item last; if your -06 can't give decent penetration on a whitetail return the ammunition for a refund!

 

[Art Eatman]

Based on some ninety years of family experience, any 150-grain bullet in an '06 will kill any deer you can hit, on out to 500 yards.

Any 150-grain bullet that will group inside of two inches at 100 yards will ruin Bambi's day.