Is 6.5 Creedmoor Worth It?
- Thread starter DDawg
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I don’t know much about hunting bullets. But I just threw a 150g Barnes in 308 and a 140g Barnes in 6.5cm into ballistic calc starting both at 2800fps. At 10 yards the 308 has roughly 150 ftlbs more energy. But the 6.5cm has passed it before they get to 100 yards.
Am I missing something? At 300 yards the 140g bullet has 150 ft lbs more energy. And is going almost 200 FPS faster which could result in better expansion
Are those numbers pretty much equal? If so it may be reasonable to say no point in buying a 308 even for short range hunting.
Am I missing something? At 300 yards the 140g bullet has 150 ft lbs more energy. And is going almost 200 FPS faster which could result in better expansion
Are those numbers pretty much equal? If so it may be reasonable to say no point in buying a 308 even for short range hunting.
I think a guy needs to go one way or another. No sense in having 2 chamberings that basically do the same thing. I’m more of a 4 rifles for different purposes in the same chambering kinda guy. Less dope to keep up with and such.
I’m a 308 guy. Lake city brass is everywhere cheap. 30 bullets are king of the road if you hunt. I’ve shot a 6.5 20 or so times. It was a blast and very easy shooting gun. . But it was a 5k plus chassis rifle too. It’s owner shoots quite a few pigs with matchkings and does pretty good there too.
22-250 is a very good small varmint gun. I have one in the back of the safe that’s been sitting 5 years. But when I lived in prairie dog country it was the number one thing I shot. 50 gr V-max red mist king! There’s better cartridges for anything bigger than a coyote and target work past 400 though.
I’m a 308 guy. Lake city brass is everywhere cheap. 30 bullets are king of the road if you hunt. I’ve shot a 6.5 20 or so times. It was a blast and very easy shooting gun. . But it was a 5k plus chassis rifle too. It’s owner shoots quite a few pigs with matchkings and does pretty good there too.
22-250 is a very good small varmint gun. I have one in the back of the safe that’s been sitting 5 years. But when I lived in prairie dog country it was the number one thing I shot. 50 gr V-max red mist king! There’s better cartridges for anything bigger than a coyote and target work past 400 though.
Whoa, before you declare the 308 a has-been I think you should consider that a 308 will shoot a lot of different bullet weights. Do you really think that a 140 gr 6.5 bullet at 200 or 300 yards or so is really more effective on an elk or a moose then say 175 gr bullet out of a 308? I don't. By the way, Vld bullets aren't the most ideal hunting bullets out there... Do you think that half the barrel life and ammo at twice the price is a good swap for a 6.5 that only has any meaningful advantage at distances over 500 yards..??? Once again, I don't.... By the time the 6.5 has traveled far enough with it's ballistic advantage to have much of an edge on the 308 it's already lost enough energy that deer are about the only big game you can reliably kill with it...
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There's a video that gets reposted of a Graybull Precision rifle in .243 dumping a cow elk at at nearly 700yds. While look for it I ran across one of Wayne van Zwoll taking one with the 6.5CM Graybull rifle at 600...looks like you can see the blood spot on the far side.
I've never shot anything that big that far out, I've shot a number of 6-800lb feral cattle, which I assume are built similarly, at 25-120ish yds. I've used the 7rem mag, 7stw, .458 socom, and 6.5-284. I've been side by side with shooters using .243s, a .308, 300s, .270s, and a lone .30-30.
I saw little difference at short range where it should be most obvious in favor of the larger dia cartridges....well the .458 showed a marked difference.
I say this not to degrade any cartridge, but to make the point that while there WILL be differences. With current bullet tech, there is little reason to not choose a cartridge your interested in just because another similar round fires a heavier bullet.
I've never shot anything that big that far out, I've shot a number of 6-800lb feral cattle, which I assume are built similarly, at 25-120ish yds. I've used the 7rem mag, 7stw, .458 socom, and 6.5-284. I've been side by side with shooters using .243s, a .308, 300s, .270s, and a lone .30-30.
I saw little difference at short range where it should be most obvious in favor of the larger dia cartridges....well the .458 showed a marked difference.
I say this not to degrade any cartridge, but to make the point that while there WILL be differences. With current bullet tech, there is little reason to not choose a cartridge your interested in just because another similar round fires a heavier bullet.
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I would think it would be just the opposite. Lots of different cartridges would be up to the task at short ranges...
Honestly, I'm not in favor of this whole trend of shooting game at extreme distances.. Some people can do it reliably but most can't and that's where it becomes unethical IMO. Those that can encourage those that can't to try. Most rifles barely have enough energy at extreme ranges to do the job with good shot placement, there isn't any excess energy for marginal shot placement. Those aren't paper targets running around out there... Nobody posts the videos online of the bad shots... I was taught that if you weren't reasonably confident of a clean kill you didn't take the shot... Some where along the line this unfortunately seems to have fallen by the wayside...
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The energy, bullet weight, and dia, are all leaning towards the larger, lower bc bullet at shorter ranges, as long as you dont have bullet blow up.
Shorter ranges DO also favor cartridges that require more precise bullet placement to effect the same results, but Ive seen bad hits will all of these. Again my only experience with BIG animals are those feral cattle.
The only animal lost was a good size bull that took a 220grn sierra roundnose, loaded to 2800ish, from my buddies .300wm behind the shoulder at about 30yds. He simply went across the fence line up a hill and lay down where we werent allowed to collect him.
Im honestly fine with people who are capable of making the shot taking it. I dont see a great need in most of my hunting, 400-500yds is a long walk over lava rocks. I still shoot a 7mm Rem Mag any time in really need meat...tho that .375 i just finished may start being my primary hunting rifle.
So what I guess I'm trying to say, is that if the .308 can do it, so can the medium and larger 6.5s (which has unusually long/heavy bullets for caliber). They also do it with less recoil, shoot flatter, and buck wind better.
Trade off is you chew up your barrel faster, but how long will it take most of us to shoot 2000+ (it took me 17+ boxes of bullets and 8 years to burn out my 7mag) from the same gun?
Premium (and semi premium) components for all the cartridges, besides the really wierd ones, aren't that much different in cost, as usually the most price difference is the brass, and that should be reusable at least 4 or 5 times.
Again pick what interests you, shoot it well, and enjoy!
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Well, the .308 can sling much heavier bullets... and the Barnes 140 gr 6.5 is a match bullet, vs the .30-cal 150 TSX or TTSX.
I put a 142 gr Nosler ABLR at 2,700 fps (BC = .293) and get 2,249 fps @ 300 yards with 1,595 ft-lbs.
For the .308 I put a 180 gr regular Accubond at 2,600 fps (BC = .246) and got 2,080 fps @ 300 yards with 1,729 ft-lbs.
Hornady's Precision Hunter line advertises 1,792 ft-lbs at 300 yards for the .308 and 1,658 ft-lbs for the 6.5 CM.
But I have to wonder how the .308's larger diameter might affect a bullet's expansion and terminal performance. After all, the .308 is to the .264 as the .358 is to the .308...
I lucked into a cheap Savage 10ba stealth in 6.5 Creedmoor and decided to see what the big deal was.
I gotta say it's a winner if you are looking for something new.
And I love the fact that I can use a lot of the components that I had for my 6.5x55 Swedish mausers.
I gotta say it's a winner if you are looking for something new.
And I love the fact that I can use a lot of the components that I had for my 6.5x55 Swedish mausers.
Jerseykris
Member
As many have already mentioned, the 6.5 would just be a duplicate for your .308, at least for your purposes as given. The 22-250 would definitely be a better choice for something new to tinker with. It'll have lots of variations to try that are in no way comparable to what you're currently shooting in .308, the 6.5 not so much unless you started tinkering for greater distances.
Now, I'm prefacing this with the reality that the 6.5 is a great, versatile round and does almost everything people have mentioned. However, I'm fairly certain I'll never buy one..... out of sheer, stubborn spite!
Almost every time I'm out with my .308, I'm approached by the Jehovah's Witness'esque emissaries:
"Hi, we're from the Church of Creedmoor. Have you heard the good word about the 6.5? It has come unto the world to deliver you from your .308's sins..."
Gets kind of annoying after awhile.
Now, I'm prefacing this with the reality that the 6.5 is a great, versatile round and does almost everything people have mentioned. However, I'm fairly certain I'll never buy one..... out of sheer, stubborn spite!
Almost every time I'm out with my .308, I'm approached by the Jehovah's Witness'esque emissaries:
"Hi, we're from the Church of Creedmoor. Have you heard the good word about the 6.5? It has come unto the world to deliver you from your .308's sins..."
Gets kind of annoying after awhile.
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As many have already mentioned, the 6.5 would just be a duplicate for your .308, at least for your purposes as given. The 22-250 would definitely be a better choice for something new to tinker with. It'll have lots of variations to try that are in no way comparable to what you're currently shooting in .308, the 6.5 not so much unless you started tinkering for greater distances.
Now, I'm prefacing this with the reality that the 6.5 is a great, versatile round and does almost everything people have mentioned. However, I'm fairly certain I'll never buy one..... out of sheer, stubborn spite!
Almost every time I'm out with my .308, I'm approached by the Jehovah's Witness'esque emissaries:
"Hi, we're from the Church of Creedmoor. Have you heard the good word about the 6.5? It has come unto the world to deliver you from your .308's sins..."
Gets kind of annoying after awhile.
Ignorance is bliss.
shooter1niner
Member
Before you buy you owe it to yourself to take a good look at the .243 Winchester. The "new hype" is about the 6mm creedmoor. I suppose more hype to spark new sales. Is it any better than the .243 Win. You decide. I have had good luck with the .243 Win. on game from varmints to whitetail.
FL-NC
Member
For the applications you are mentioning, the 308 should be more than adequate. I am in a similar situation, as most criter shooting around here is confined to ranges of 100 meters or less- shots that can easily be taken with my sporter-type rifles in 223 or 243. As a result, my long range rifles are mostly range tools.
Gtscotty
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Good Lord! 6.5 Creedmoor is useless inside of 600yds, wounds lots of game and the ammo costs twice as much as .308.... It's getting pretty deep in this thread... You'd think after owning and shooting multiples of both I'd know all that, but I guess some things you just have to learn on the internet.
For the OP, I have both and shoot both at long range, if you want a new rifle, I'd say the 6.5 would be a good choice. Just because the 6.5 walks away from the .308 at longer ranges (especially in decent wind) doesn't mean it isn't just as good for closer range shooting as well. For shooting targets, the 6.5 will have less recoil, less wind deflection, and similar or perhaps slightly lower reloading costs (using similar quality match bullets).
For hunting the game you're talking about, the 6.5 works just fine. I was happy with the performance I got on my cow elk last year and know a few guys who knocked over a bunch of Muleys and Antelope with various 6.5mm hunting bullets. No concerns there. Dinguses lobbing bullets towards animals at ranges that exceed their skill level will wound and lose game with whatever is in their hands. Period.
I have an RPR and would never recommend one as a hunting rifle, unless you are just sitting over beanfields in an elevated shooting house or some such. They are heavy and get even heavier when you put a decent scope on. On that topic, I'd echo whoever recommend that you get a new scope first, SWFAs are the cheapest I'd go if you're twisting turrets, I have a few and they are very reliable. Better glass costs mo-money. I will say, the new Nikon FX1000 FFP scopes look interesting at their price point, but no real reports on reliability have filtered out yet.
If you really want a rifle that works well for target shooting and ok for hunting, I'd look at the Tikka CTR or something similar. They are kind of heavy for a hunting rifle and light for a target rifle, but they tend to shoot. My only remaining .308 is a CTR, and it's a hammer. The only thing I'd change about it is the chambering. When I rebarrel it will most likely become a 6.5 or 6 Creedmoor.
As for the 22-250, I can't really help you there, a fast twist version like the 8 twist Tikkas and RARs that Whittaker's had would be neat platforms for launching 80gr ELDs and the like, I don't see the draw of a regular slow twist version though. Either way, the barrel life should be quite a bit lower than the 6.5.
For the OP, I have both and shoot both at long range, if you want a new rifle, I'd say the 6.5 would be a good choice. Just because the 6.5 walks away from the .308 at longer ranges (especially in decent wind) doesn't mean it isn't just as good for closer range shooting as well. For shooting targets, the 6.5 will have less recoil, less wind deflection, and similar or perhaps slightly lower reloading costs (using similar quality match bullets).
For hunting the game you're talking about, the 6.5 works just fine. I was happy with the performance I got on my cow elk last year and know a few guys who knocked over a bunch of Muleys and Antelope with various 6.5mm hunting bullets. No concerns there. Dinguses lobbing bullets towards animals at ranges that exceed their skill level will wound and lose game with whatever is in their hands. Period.
I have an RPR and would never recommend one as a hunting rifle, unless you are just sitting over beanfields in an elevated shooting house or some such. They are heavy and get even heavier when you put a decent scope on. On that topic, I'd echo whoever recommend that you get a new scope first, SWFAs are the cheapest I'd go if you're twisting turrets, I have a few and they are very reliable. Better glass costs mo-money. I will say, the new Nikon FX1000 FFP scopes look interesting at their price point, but no real reports on reliability have filtered out yet.
If you really want a rifle that works well for target shooting and ok for hunting, I'd look at the Tikka CTR or something similar. They are kind of heavy for a hunting rifle and light for a target rifle, but they tend to shoot. My only remaining .308 is a CTR, and it's a hammer. The only thing I'd change about it is the chambering. When I rebarrel it will most likely become a 6.5 or 6 Creedmoor.
As for the 22-250, I can't really help you there, a fast twist version like the 8 twist Tikkas and RARs that Whittaker's had would be neat platforms for launching 80gr ELDs and the like, I don't see the draw of a regular slow twist version though. Either way, the barrel life should be quite a bit lower than the 6.5.
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I want or thank everyone for your response's, this thread has been a huge help and even changed my direction.
After reading all the coments and taking a "realistic" look at how I shoot and what I'm looking for, this is what I came to:
1) I want something different
2) I will rarely shoot over 500 yds target shooting (I live in N Ga), but who knows
3) The only animal I will risk shooting over 300 yds is Coyotes (They are devastating Georgia wildlife, GA DNR will actually give you a lifetime hunting license if you kill enough of them) and our farm has a ton of them.
So it looks like I may go with the 22-250. If I don't get lucky and find a nice used rig, I think I'll go with a Ruger American Preditor and good optics. If I really like it I might buy a nice chasis for it.
BTW, does anyone know If the Ruger American Preditor 22-250 is a short action?
Thanks Again,
David
After reading all the coments and taking a "realistic" look at how I shoot and what I'm looking for, this is what I came to:
1) I want something different
2) I will rarely shoot over 500 yds target shooting (I live in N Ga), but who knows
3) The only animal I will risk shooting over 300 yds is Coyotes (They are devastating Georgia wildlife, GA DNR will actually give you a lifetime hunting license if you kill enough of them) and our farm has a ton of them.
So it looks like I may go with the 22-250. If I don't get lucky and find a nice used rig, I think I'll go with a Ruger American Preditor and good optics. If I really like it I might buy a nice chasis for it.
BTW, does anyone know If the Ruger American Preditor 22-250 is a short action?
Thanks Again,
David
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mpd61
Member
Honestly the Hoopla is sooooo overblown about the Creedmoor. How many times are we going to attempt to re-invent the 6.5x55 Swede? This 115 year old cartridge has been doing it well for decades! The 6.5×55 was popular in long range target matches of 300 m (328 yd) – 1,000 m (1,094 yd). The 6.5×55mm cartridge competed in Olympic Biathalon until 1975. The 6.5×55mm was and is used for 1,000 yd (914.4 m) target shooting disciplines like F class and benchrest. Oh it will shoot 140-160 grain bullets too! In my humble opinion, the .260 Nosler is redux .264 Win mag, the 6.5 Rem mag failed for reasons well known, and .260 Remington can't use long bullets either? Lets just stop and go back to what works.....6.5x55 Swede!
BTW, have fun with that 22-250
BTW, have fun with that 22-250
.22-250 should serve you well! The RAPs are all short action. I just checked the spec sheet, it looks like it carries a 1-10 twist barrel, that should at least get you into the 69/70grn match bullet range maybe a little more.
The Swede won't fit in short actions, so your stuck with a long, or one of the few medium actions available.
I considered the Swede when I had my t-99 barreled to 6.5-284, and I think it's a fine round when used in actions that are the right size.
The 6.5 CMs only advantage over the .260 is that it fits in 2.8" magazines better.
So you could say that both rounds we're designed do to action limitations, while providing Swede like performance.
Txhillbilly
Member
Now that's funny! The 260 Rem - 6.5 Creedmoor - and 6.5x47 Lapua are all pretty much identical in every aspect except the cases themselves.
A fellow at work wanted something different, so he got a Savage in 6.5 Creedmore. He likes it and shot a couple of deer with it this year. He has a .270, a .280, a .308, and who knows what else, he just wanted something different. He'll likely never shoot over 150 yards at a deer, and may never shoot it over 300 for fun, but he likes new things. He put an S-Tac 5-20x50 duplex reticle on it because it was on sale, had a 50MM objective, and I told him it was a good deal and glass he would be happy with. He was. So, a 6.5 Creedmore with a 5-20 scope that he'll likely never shoot over 200 yards with, but it has the 50MM objective he wanted (Insisted on), it was different, it was the new cool thing, and he's happy. The scope is bright and clear at dusk, the deer went bang flop dead, which is all he wanted out of it. Sure, he has other combos that do the same thing.
Those guys who want to shoot extra long range ought to dump their pee shooters and get a real gun:
All those shooters who think they are going to shoot the center of a quarter out at 1000 yards need to go down to CMP Talladega and show that they can keep all their shots in the ten ring, if not the X ring, at 600 yards.
I promise you, the Rangemasters have heard it all before. Guys who buy real expensive rigs and can't hold the black at 300 yards, so they won't let them spray the countryside at 600 yards. Six hundred yards is a long way out there, and 1000 yards is a lot more. My recollection, the bullet drop (308) from 300 to 600 yards is 12 MOA, and it is a further 24 MOA from 600 to 1000. I remember being squadded with a 1000 yard Wimbleton Cup winner, and at 1000 yards, before the relay started, we wondered about all those great internet sniper dudes who regularly shoot inside the X ring at that distance. We, being sling shooters, are outrageously happy if we just hit the black first shot. And this is with rifles and ammunition with established zero's on that firing line, at that distance.
All that ballistic blah,blah you read, about the superiority of the ballistics of one round over another, that is gunwriter talk. These guys are paid to push product. If you can't hit the target, because your shooting skills are awful, it does not matter what ballistic coefficient you are using. Equipment will not compensate for poor shooting skills. And if you are good enough, you will have a very good idea of the limitations of your rig, and what shots you should or should not take.
In my opinion, the 6.5 Creedmoor is an excellent target round. That was what it was designed for. It has only been in the last 20 years that we finally got outstanding target bullets in the 6.5 mm. The caliber always had the potential, but for some reason, bullet makers were slow in introducing good bullets. I have asked those who have one, how far they take their barrels before the throat is eroded away,. Generally, if you can take a 6.5 barrel to 2000 rounds, you are doing good. I have heard of 2700 round life, I think the guy was shooting reduced loads out to 300 yards, then full power beyond that. Target shooters took their 308 Win barrels around 5000 rounds, generally the things got squirrely when the throat erosion gaged above a three. I have had them gage a three around 4300-4500 rounds. You could clean the 300 yard target, but at 600 yards, the barrel would not cluster, then, you would get leakers. I of course, blamed the barrel. (It could not have been me!)
I have a 6.5 Swede. It can do everything the 6.5 Creedmoor does and at less pressure.
I have got excellent zero's out to 300 yards with the thing. Last time I tried to see what it would do at 600 yards, with this rifle
I ran out of elevation on the scope. That is also something the 2000 yard shooters don't mention. If you want to shoot 1000 yards, you better have a 20 MOA scope mount.
You know, the 6.5 caliber military cartridges all made their names with 160 grain bullets. I don't know anyone shooting 160 grain bullets, but they ought to make an outstanding hunting bullet. They would be very long and if they expanded, they would still have a fair amount of weight to drive through an animal.
All those shooters who think they are going to shoot the center of a quarter out at 1000 yards need to go down to CMP Talladega and show that they can keep all their shots in the ten ring, if not the X ring, at 600 yards.
I promise you, the Rangemasters have heard it all before. Guys who buy real expensive rigs and can't hold the black at 300 yards, so they won't let them spray the countryside at 600 yards. Six hundred yards is a long way out there, and 1000 yards is a lot more. My recollection, the bullet drop (308) from 300 to 600 yards is 12 MOA, and it is a further 24 MOA from 600 to 1000. I remember being squadded with a 1000 yard Wimbleton Cup winner, and at 1000 yards, before the relay started, we wondered about all those great internet sniper dudes who regularly shoot inside the X ring at that distance. We, being sling shooters, are outrageously happy if we just hit the black first shot. And this is with rifles and ammunition with established zero's on that firing line, at that distance.
All that ballistic blah,blah you read, about the superiority of the ballistics of one round over another, that is gunwriter talk. These guys are paid to push product. If you can't hit the target, because your shooting skills are awful, it does not matter what ballistic coefficient you are using. Equipment will not compensate for poor shooting skills. And if you are good enough, you will have a very good idea of the limitations of your rig, and what shots you should or should not take.
In my opinion, the 6.5 Creedmoor is an excellent target round. That was what it was designed for. It has only been in the last 20 years that we finally got outstanding target bullets in the 6.5 mm. The caliber always had the potential, but for some reason, bullet makers were slow in introducing good bullets. I have asked those who have one, how far they take their barrels before the throat is eroded away,. Generally, if you can take a 6.5 barrel to 2000 rounds, you are doing good. I have heard of 2700 round life, I think the guy was shooting reduced loads out to 300 yards, then full power beyond that. Target shooters took their 308 Win barrels around 5000 rounds, generally the things got squirrely when the throat erosion gaged above a three. I have had them gage a three around 4300-4500 rounds. You could clean the 300 yard target, but at 600 yards, the barrel would not cluster, then, you would get leakers. I of course, blamed the barrel. (It could not have been me!)
I have a 6.5 Swede. It can do everything the 6.5 Creedmoor does and at less pressure.
I have got excellent zero's out to 300 yards with the thing. Last time I tried to see what it would do at 600 yards, with this rifle
I ran out of elevation on the scope. That is also something the 2000 yard shooters don't mention. If you want to shoot 1000 yards, you better have a 20 MOA scope mount.
You know, the 6.5 caliber military cartridges all made their names with 160 grain bullets. I don't know anyone shooting 160 grain bullets, but they ought to make an outstanding hunting bullet. They would be very long and if they expanded, they would still have a fair amount of weight to drive through an animal.
I purchased a 6.5x55 SE ( Tikka Hunter rifle ) about nine years ago. It's not too different from the 6.5 CM as you all know.
I've hunted
I have an 6.5 Swede. Tikka rifle. While I was still hunting I used Lapua Mega 155gr. load. It was a good hunting bullet.
I've hunted
I have an 6.5 Swede. Tikka rifle. While I was still hunting I used Lapua Mega 155gr. load. It was a good hunting bullet.
Nature Boy
Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2015
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- 8,270
I don’t have one but I’ve always wanted one. I think that’s a great choice
BigDog1955
Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2018
- Messages
- 172
If U are looking for a reasonable cost rifle that is good to the 600 yds, the Ruger American Preditor 6.5 CM is a lot of fun, I have redone the stock, trigger and it shoots great. I installed a M11 brake and the recoil is like a 22 mag. U can keep your eye on the target after your shot. a few pics:
Bedded for arm:
Burris Signature rings:
M11 brake:
100 yards sight in 5 round group:
Good luck!!
Bedded for arm:
Burris Signature rings:
M11 brake:
100 yards sight in 5 round group:
Good luck!!
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
^^ Nice shooting!
Llama Bob
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- 2,258
I use the 160gr Weldcore in 6.5CM, and I'm experimenting with it in .264WM as well although the first try at a load there was a 2.5MOA disaster. It's a great big game bullet for the 6.5s, and I would have no problem shooting a moose or elk with any of them at reasonable ranges.
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