JRH6856
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6 is probably enough until the crap starts shooting back.
Is 6 Shots Really Enough?
- Thread starter LouisianaGunner12
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6 is probably enough until the crap starts shooting back.
SharpsDressedMan
member
Bill Jordan and Skeeter Skelton are turning over in their graves! :banghead:
sixgunner455
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I don't know, but I bet, even as an old man, he was still the most dangerous man in the room.
R.W.Dale
Member
Ill keep that in mind next time I'm ordered "over the top" and across no mans land.
posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complains about
Indifferent
Member
I kinda see this as a no winner ever produced dialogue.
I know hot to operate a semi auto, however I feel if I was getting assaulted the only thing I honestly feel comfortable with is a 5 shot J frame. Point and click interface even through pockets. But that isn't the best gun, but there is no best gun for all situations. Just the best gun for you and your situation and what you are comfortable and proficient with. That's really all that matters if you hate a tool and don't know how to use that tool than you will most likely wind up not doing so well in your situation.
I know hot to operate a semi auto, however I feel if I was getting assaulted the only thing I honestly feel comfortable with is a 5 shot J frame. Point and click interface even through pockets. But that isn't the best gun, but there is no best gun for all situations. Just the best gun for you and your situation and what you are comfortable and proficient with. That's really all that matters if you hate a tool and don't know how to use that tool than you will most likely wind up not doing so well in your situation.
SharpsDressedMan
member
Alvin York needed more than six shots.
OH, NO HE DIDN'T! He RELOADED!
OH, NO HE DIDN'T! He RELOADED!
Folks, there are some differences among soldiers, police officers, and armed citizens.
The soldier is most likely to be armed with a long arm or something larger.
The soldier and the police officer may properly have weapons in hand under circumstances in which the armed citizen may not.
Most--not all, but most--violent criminals would choose to try to escape from a police officer.
The armed citizen will likely not be supported or backed up by others in an armed confrontation.
If a soldier or police officer empties his or her firearm, he or she will reload if possible and will still be properly engaged in the confrontation as a function of duty.
The armed citizen is expected to avoid trouble whenever possible.
But that may not be possible. When it is not, he or she will have to do what is possible to survive and/or to protect loved ones against one, two, or more violent criminal actors in an extremely rapidly unfolding situation, with a defensive weapon of limited effectiveness that may not properly be presented except as a last resort. Should that weapon be emptied, the opportunity to reload would be rather unlikely to present itself until the immediate danger had passed.
The defender may not have time to fire even once. The defender may not have time to fire six times should that many be needed. Six may be enough--or not. It's a simple matter of risk asssessment and risk mitigation, and capacity is but one consideration.
I do not expect to ever have to draw, much less fire even once. But should it happen, I would certainly prefer more than six.
The soldier is most likely to be armed with a long arm or something larger.
The soldier and the police officer may properly have weapons in hand under circumstances in which the armed citizen may not.
Most--not all, but most--violent criminals would choose to try to escape from a police officer.
The armed citizen will likely not be supported or backed up by others in an armed confrontation.
If a soldier or police officer empties his or her firearm, he or she will reload if possible and will still be properly engaged in the confrontation as a function of duty.
The armed citizen is expected to avoid trouble whenever possible.
But that may not be possible. When it is not, he or she will have to do what is possible to survive and/or to protect loved ones against one, two, or more violent criminal actors in an extremely rapidly unfolding situation, with a defensive weapon of limited effectiveness that may not properly be presented except as a last resort. Should that weapon be emptied, the opportunity to reload would be rather unlikely to present itself until the immediate danger had passed.
The defender may not have time to fire even once. The defender may not have time to fire six times should that many be needed. Six may be enough--or not. It's a simple matter of risk asssessment and risk mitigation, and capacity is but one consideration.
I do not expect to ever have to draw, much less fire even once. But should it happen, I would certainly prefer more than six.
Certaindeaf
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Unless the pin stabbed back! lolz
David E
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Alvin York needed more than six shots.
OH, NO HE DIDN'T! He RELOADED!
Perhaps you're not familiar with the incident referred to. He wouldn't have had time to reload.
seeker_two
Member
Something I've noticed....
Back when revolvers ruled the LEO landscape, the prevalent tactic in a gunfight was "double-tap & evaluate". Seemed to work pretty well then....esp. when LEO's carried .357Mag revolvers.
When the LEO's started carrying autoloaders, the tactic then changed to "shoot until they hit the ground, reload, then evaluate". A lot more rounds got fired....but the results didn't change. If anything, more rounds seemed to hit things other than the BG....and the BG took more rounds before falling.
Another thing to think about....in the Miami Shootout, the fight started with semiautos....but it was ended with revolvers....
I think six shots is enough for most SD issues...if not, I don't think you'll have time for the 7th shot....
Back when revolvers ruled the LEO landscape, the prevalent tactic in a gunfight was "double-tap & evaluate". Seemed to work pretty well then....esp. when LEO's carried .357Mag revolvers.
When the LEO's started carrying autoloaders, the tactic then changed to "shoot until they hit the ground, reload, then evaluate". A lot more rounds got fired....but the results didn't change. If anything, more rounds seemed to hit things other than the BG....and the BG took more rounds before falling.
Another thing to think about....in the Miami Shootout, the fight started with semiautos....but it was ended with revolvers....
I think six shots is enough for most SD issues...if not, I don't think you'll have time for the 7th shot....
SharpsDressedMan
member
He fired his rifle from concealment, engaging machine gun nests prior to fending off a charge with a 1911 (7 shots, right?), but most PROBABLY had to charge his rifle (five shots, either M1917 Enfield or M1903 Springfield) more than once. So, if that's true, York RELOADED after FIVE shots with his rifle, possibly even more than once. Amazing what you can do witrh a cool head and clear conscience. He did fire more than six, but he reloaded (the rifle) as needed. Possibly a six shot revolver would have been as good as a 15 shot auto to York, for the deed that he did with the pistol, as we do not know how many he engaged during the charge.
By what measure?
I'm pretty certain that, over the decades, our officers have become less and less likely to be feloniously killed.
OldCavSoldier
Member
I already clank when I walk......
Seriously, I agree with the sentiment that 5 in my J-frame is enough. When you add the look of an older guy who has been around the mountain, and lived through the trip, not without scars, mind you, THAT adds to the overall package.
Seriously, I agree with the sentiment that 5 in my J-frame is enough. When you add the look of an older guy who has been around the mountain, and lived through the trip, not without scars, mind you, THAT adds to the overall package.
OldCavSoldier
Member
I was originally trained to fight with a six-banger Colt DA revolver. When I got to life sustaining ability with that, THEN I was trained to fight with an auto....1911A1......the old guy who trained me back in the day said that "if you can keep alive with six, then seven in the mag and one in the spout should be a mite easier."
He was right.
seeker_two
Member
Are you also taking into account the use of bullet-resistant vests & improved medical treatment? What about eliminating the incidents where the officer never fired a shot?
A better measure is to compare the number of perps stopped to the number of rounds fired. And I'm pretty sure those results won't favor the autoloader as much as you think....
SwissArmyDad
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for me considering a wheelgun has to do with very simple factors.
-My AR is fun to have out and loaded, but is somewhat intimidating for guests to see out, obviously, so back in the closet it goes.
-My XD9 5" is much easier to tote around and is generally comfortable in my jeans or work clothes that I wear 20-30% of the time around the house/property.
-The other 70-80% of the time that I'm wearing light rockclimbing/hiking shorts (REI style) or cargo shorts the XD is in my safe, and I'm unarmed doing tasks around the house/property, because of the weight/bulk of that large pistol.
In that case, 5 shots from a j-frame is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH (get it, 5..lol) better than being completely un-armed.
That's the way I look at it.
-My AR is fun to have out and loaded, but is somewhat intimidating for guests to see out, obviously, so back in the closet it goes.
-My XD9 5" is much easier to tote around and is generally comfortable in my jeans or work clothes that I wear 20-30% of the time around the house/property.
-The other 70-80% of the time that I'm wearing light rockclimbing/hiking shorts (REI style) or cargo shorts the XD is in my safe, and I'm unarmed doing tasks around the house/property, because of the weight/bulk of that large pistol.
In that case, 5 shots from a j-frame is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH (get it, 5..lol) better than being completely un-armed.
That's the way I look at it.
I don't see how that's a better measure than, you know, whether or not the officer died.
SharpsDressedMan
member
FBI studies show violent assaults often involve multiple assailants. .......................................................Did you mean often, or sometimes? I find it hard to believe that most encounters are multiple assailants. Did they leave out rape, domestic assault, and other things, and only include gang related incidents? What can we refer to?
Are often and sometimes mutually exclusive terms?
Pretty irrelevant if it's only 1 in a hundred and you are number 100.
Good luck
M
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