Is a body cam my best legal protection as a CCW Person?

[KNightshaus]

I Think (but cannot prove) that Body cam footage will exonerate Lawful use of a firearm. Instead of a He says - He says, it becomes “The video shows”.

have purchased an inexpensive Body cam for @ $40.00. I have not received it yet, but it advertises to Loop 8 hours.

I have many other questions and points for discussion, but I will limit This post to the primary question asked in the title.

 

[starling]

Too weird for me. I will take my chances I guess. Also sounds like a trap. Talk about a pandoras box...sheesh

 

[Hikingman]

Best friend or worst enemy. It probably depends on the content, and of course it could be used against you?

 

[starling]

Best friend or worst enemy. It probably depends on the content, and of course it could be used against you?

Can be used on the entire CCW holder populace. I know a trap when I see one.

 

[KNightshaus]

Nothing I posted should be mis construed as calling for any mandatory requirement for CCw's.

Frankly I hope this discussion will be more about how body cam footage can be used to strengthen my defense in a Legal use of force incident.



The reality is that any lawful use of force WILL be closely scrutinized. This doesn't impact that unless My actions are unjustified.

I believe I am better served by being able to say, "Look at the video, that's what actually happened". Rather than "His friends say you...".

 

[starling]

Well golly gee willikers......"Mandatory Requirement for CCWs" HMMMMMM where on earth did you get that idea from? I didnt say it nor did anyone else.

All Gun Owners are not stupid ya know. Some are even miles ahead of these kind of tactics.

Enjoy your body cam!

Welcome to the forum BTW. Im sure your intentions are completely honorable. Bang up job for your first post.

 

[KNightshaus]

"Can be used on the entire CCW holder populace. I know a trap when I see one."
Respectfully sir this is where I got the idea.
I hope nothing I have posted infers in any way that I believe that gunowners are stupid.

What "Kind of tactics " are you referring too?

This post is seeking input from my fellow gun owners on how to best meet the legal challenges sure to accrue after a Legal use of force incident.
I think we both agree that the Anti-gun element in our country will use any insane rational to demonize Guns in general and use of guns in lawful self-defense in particular.
I am luckier than many in that My home state (resident) has done away with any licensing requirements for concealed or open carry.
Sadly, in today's world Sensationalism and spectacle (Optics) rule. There are the way things are, and the way things should be.
Thank you for your input.

 

[The_Quartermaster]

If that's you thing, well here's another option to consider then.



https://viridianweapontech.com/fact-duty-learn-more

 

[upptick]

We're close to already having 24/7 video surveillance everywhere and having a video / audio record is of course much better than relying on memory under chaotic conditions. Personally, I'm fine with a "body cam" because I already am used to wearing an "action cam," like a Go Pro, for outdoor activities and I think there is a strong case for having a dash cam in your vehicle as well. But wearing a body cam whenever I'm out does seem a little over the top, although Google sells (or at least was selling) a device that you wear like regular glasses but which includes a camera and provides a constant wireless feed. I think that's where we will inevitably end up....

 

[dweis]

Keep in mind that if you make a mistake the cam I’d going to capture it. It could be used against you. There is a reason self-defense lawyers tell clients not to say anything before the lawyer meets with them. That reason is to prevent the prosecution from using what you say against you. I think you can assume that a video would be carefully examined to see if they can find a mistake made by you. As for me: no body cam.

 

[Styx]

I Think (but cannot prove) that Body cam footage will exonerate Lawful use of a firearm. Instead of a He says - He says, it becomes “The video shows”.

have purchased an inexpensive Body cam for @ $40.00. I have not received it yet, but it advertises to Loop 8 hours.

I have many other questions and points for discussion, but I will limit This post to the primary question asked in the title.

As others have stated, it could work for or against you. You might personally believe you did nothing wrong, but law enforcement and a prosecutor (both who often want to and will go out of their way to find any reason to lock people up) will believe otherwise. Another thing, prosecutors might use something you did or said in the 7 or so hours prior to the altercation against you as well. My only worry would be something I said or did leading up to the shoot might bite me in my backside. Maybe I had a beer at home or at a restaurant hours before. Maybe I had a personal conversation about a current event, and I mentioned that the person she have been killed. Maybe I got into an argument and said things or thinks were said about me that I wouldn't want anyone else to hear...

There are cameras on the highway, at most intersections, in the parking lots of most stores, many people have surveillance cameras on their doors, around their property, and even inside their homes. There are cameras in every store you go into, at most people's place of employment, at court, in schools, a lot of people have dash cams on their vehicles, and lastly, seemingly everyone has a cellphone nowadays who will whip it out in a heartbeat to start recording (instead of helping, calling L.E., or escaping) anything interesting. Chances are you are being recorded already and will be recorded if you are out in public when you defend yourself. IMHO, it's a no harm no foul thing if you want to wear a body camera.

Let's be realistic though, think you have better chance of hitting the lottery or being struck by lightning vs having to use your firearm in a self defense situation especially if you don't live in or frequent the hood. IMHO many hardcore gun owners spend to much time seeking out and being overally obsessed with each and every negative crime strory that happens in the U.S. and around the world in the current day and age of 24/7 365 for profit shock jock news reporting. It's making them overly paranoid when in reality, there are a long list of other things that they have a better chance of being hurt or dying from that they completely overlook and don't give as much attention to.

 

[bearcreek]

I have many other questions and points for discussion, but I will limit This post to the primary question asked in the title.

The answer is no. Likely to get you in real trouble though when you forget and wear it into a public restroom.

 

[starling]

As others have stated, it could work for or against you. You might personally believe you did nothing wrong, but law enforcement and a prosecutor (both who often want to and will go out of their way to find any reason to lock people up) will believe otherwise. Another thing, prosecutors might use something you did or said in the 7 or so hours prior to the altercation against you as well. My only worry would be something I said or did leading up to the shoot might bite me in my backside. Maybe I had a beer at home or at a restaurant hours before. Maybe I had a personal conversation about a current event, and I mentioned that the person she have been killed. Maybe I got into an argument and said things or thinks were said about me that I wouldn't want anyone else to hear...

There are cameras on the highway, at most intersections, in the parking lots of most stores, many people have surveillance cameras on their doors, around their property, and even inside their homes. There are cameras in every store you go into, at most people's place of employment, at court, in schools, a lot of people have dash cams on their vehicles, and lastly, seemingly everyone has a cellphone nowadays who will whip it out in a heartbeat to start recording (instead of helping, calling L.E., or escaping) anything interesting. Chances are you are being recorded already and will be recorded if you are out in public when you defend yourself. IMHO, it's a no harm no foul thing if you want to wear a body camera.

Let's be realistic though, think you have better chance of hitting the lottery or being struck by lightning vs having to use your firearm in a self defense situation. IMHO many hardcore gun owners spend to much time seeking out and being overally obsessed with each and every negative crime strory that happens in the U.S. and around the world in the current day and age of 24/7 365 for profit shock jock news reporting. It's making them overly paranoid when in reality, there are a long list of other things that they have a better chance of being hurt or dying from that they completely overlook and don't give as much attention to.

Well said. I will add that as a CCW holder people should understand that you will in all likelyhood have to survive the first strike on your life. A perp/criminal etc. has every possible advantage on you as they have suprise on their side along with not following the Law. Its just the way it is. You cant pull out a CCW in public just because you "think" someone might be a threat.

Thats why the talk of situational awareness is important.... let them know you see them watching you. Making eye contact can disparage someone to even attempt something. That act alone can be enough and take a very key weapon in their arsenal (element of suprise). Plus its good practice in daily life to make solid eye contact with people and say hello... hows it going? Win/Win for everyone. It also helps the individual to not develop paranoid/antisocial tendancies and stay well tuned to good/polite social norms. Being aware does not mean you walk around scanning the area like the terminator measuring up everyone around you.

Your average predator waits for the unaware to strike as they are an easier target. Someone like say a Mugger/Thief is not looking for a hard target. If that were the case they would just go out and work like everyone else. They want easy targets. Thats why women can be at such a disadvantage as they are very unlikly to fight off/survive a first strike and regain control of the situation. Inclination to fall into emeotional distress doesnt help either. My wife has one of those emergency LOUD alarms on her Keys for places like parking lots. Last thing a perp/thief/rapist wants is attention. I kinda promote all women carry those devices.

 

[Hartkopf]

The answer is no. Likely to get you in real trouble though when you forget and wear it into a public restroom.

Unless he's wearing a dress, then it's ok.

 

[Jim Watson]

It might be a target for a zealous cop or DA in the same manner as is often feared for a customized gun or hand loaded ammunition.
"See, see, he was wearing a camera because he was looking for a fight."

 

[Hartkopf]

Numerous ways it could be used against you. Including; you were looking for content in an attempt to become famous.

It could be a good thing though. I don't know what's best but I probably would never wear one. My phone is already recording my exact location and proximity to other phones. Probably listening too.

 

[Styx]

If I did have a recording OP, I wouldn't let law enforcement know about it until after I had a lawyer look at it. I would remain silent other than stating that I had to defend myself from a crime.

 

[starling]

It might be a target for a zealous cop or DA in the same manner as is often feared for a customized gun or hand loaded ammunition.
"See, see, he was wearing a camera because he was looking for a fight."

Can also go the other way if such a rediculous notion ever became the norm. "He doesnt wear a body cam because he is looking for a fight"

If this ever gets a major push.... its a trap.

 

[Styx]

It might be a target for a zealous cop or DA in the same manner as is often feared for a customized gun or hand loaded ammunition.
"See, see, he was wearing a camera because he was looking for a fight."

An officer and/or DA can and will spin any and everything to get a conviction no matter what side of the fence the evidence is on. I never seen or heard of anyone being convicted because they used hand loaded ammo, customized their gun, etc in an otherwise good shoot per the evidence.

 

[starling]

An officer and/or DA can and will spin any and everything to get a conviction no matter what side of the fence the evidence is on. I never seen or heard of anyone being convicted because they used hand loaded ammo, customized their gun, etc in an otherwise good shoot per the evidence.

A lawyer is largely just a salesman. The client is the product. The Judge/jury are the customers. Pretty sad but thats kind of the reality. Whats right or wrong is not as important as the sale.

realistic wise people need to at some point decide how far they want to take things. Should we all wear full body armor when in public? When I want to go out with my kids do I first make a trip to recon the area? Maybe we should all just self imprison ourselves and never leave the house for fear of the unknown (I see this mentality a bit)? Put Cameras anywhere and everywhere etc. etc.

There gets to be a point where self inflicted psychological and physical damage starts taking place. I see a potential future where people are going to need to be taught how to actually live again. People can blame things (covid, phones, fear of attack, fear of lawfare etc.) but throwing blame around isn't going to solve anything. Life involves chance and there is no gaurantee. People can either accept that or live 24/7 in fear of the unknown.

Something like a bodycam isnt going to shield anything. Last time I checked there were still LE getting prosecuted while wearing cameras and there is a really good arguement to be made that they create a severe distraction in the event that you have to defend yourself from an attack. Analysis Paralysis becomes a real thing and the last thing you want to do is to be playing out legal what ifs when you are in actual fear for your life.

 

[Old_Grouch]

I think a personal body cam, like a dash cam, may save you bacon but I think there is one critical caveat. I wouldn't let ANYONE know I had recorded an event until I showed the recording to my attorney. I'll let him decide whether it's more likely to save me or bury me.

 

[starling]

I think a personal body cam, like a dash cam, may save you bacon but I think there is one critical caveat. I wouldn't let ANYONE know I had recorded an event until I showed the recording to my attorney. I'll let him decide whether it's more likely to save me or bury me.

Dont forget about "discovery" in a trial. If someone had a recording and chose to hide it thats getting into some shakey areas. Then if questioned on the stand you are under oath which which leads to other problems.

 

[TarDevil]

Dont forget about "discovery" in a trial. If someone had a recording and chose to hide it thats getting into some shakey areas. Then if questioned on the stand you are under oath which which leads to other problems.

^^^^!

If you choose to wear a body cam, go ahead and count on it being part of your legal wrangles.
That thing may get you in trouble long before you need a firearm.

 

[Speedo66]

"Look, he wanted to record himself shooting someone. What a sick jerk."

If you are taken into custody, everything you have on you will be taken from you, so much for only letting your attorney know you have a body cam.

 

[Old Dog]

OP, you do know that many states require the consent of other parties to be video-recorded, right?

A body-worn camera is a whole 'nother kettle of fish than a dash camera or security camera on one's property.