Is a Knife a Weapon to You?

[Guyon]

I guess what's being debated here in the main is whether language is fixed and "true" or whether it is contextual and slippery. This isn't a new debate; it's at least as old as Plato's "Cratylus" (For those interested, here ya' go: http://www.karalahana.com/literature/plato cratylus.htm). The same debate is still being waged in academic circles between structuralists (fundamental systems based on explicit definitions) and deconstructionists (all systems are relative), though they may call themselves by slightly different names as the mood strikes.

I really like the responses that have speculated about what one would do in the presence of an LEO. I suspect that a lot of folks would be a little less likely to adamantly maintain that their knife is a "weapon." Language gets funny when your behind is on the line.

As for the language debate, I have to throw out this quotation from the master of spin and deconstruction:

"It depends on what your definition of 'is' is." --William Jefferson Clinton.

From my view, language has always been and is always going to be a slippery, political beast. Trying to pin it down is sort of like trying to pin down a tomato seed with your fingernail. The best we can hope for is to corral it to our advantage. Really, that's why I think knives ought to be depicted as tools. I don't see it so much as a concession. Really, it's just smart strategy.

 

[Baba Louie]

weap on n. 1. a. Any instrument or device used to attack another or to defend oneself from attack. b. Any part of the body used in attack or defense, such as an animal's horns, teeth or claws. 2. Any means employed to overcome, persuade, or get the better of another:"Her smile was her most effective weapon."

What Tamara defined and said kinda sounds like something R.A. Heinlein would write in one (or several) of his books. The mind is the weapon.

The real question would be... Is it a dirk or a dagger (shudder)?

Intent? Tell it to the judge.

My definition does and will not match, say, a judge or legislater in CA's definition.

So I guess until I use one of my knives as defined at the top, they're just tools that cut.

Adios

 

[brownie0486]

The only problem with that is you are going to answer to the states definition. They have been defined "legally", thats the law and we change it or work within its parameters.

Carry legal, have the state law concerning knives with you and when questioned or hastled by an uninformed LE type drag it out and show him.

Saves so much time, money , hastles, and you may just walk away unscathed.

Play semantics with the LE's on the street and they will likely take it as some form of resistance. Knowing their attitudes from being one for awhile they love a challenge to their authority and always have the upper hand on the streets whether they are proved right or wrong later.

Brownie

 

[Sir Galahad]

Got to agree with what Brownie says here. YOU might call your Vaquero Grande a "tool", but, really, what cop is going to believe that? If it is legal to carry, the cop is going to abide by that most times. The reason the cop is asking if you have weapons is for his personal safety as he interacts with you. If a cop asks me if I have a weapon, I am going to answer, "I have a pocketknife" and leave it at that. Now, Guyon, you also mentioned what one should call a knife when some liberal asks "What are you carrying THAT for?!" Again, if the law says you can carry it, why need we justify it to some liberal who probably faints away at the sight of a letter opener? Some laws do not specify as to what purpose a knife may be carried, only that it can be carried. So why need the purpose be given to some hand-wringer if the law itself doesn't? Brownie is correct. A cop hearing that your Vaquero Grande is a "tool" might think you're a wiseguy. Most police officers realize that they cannot be everywhere at once and that people are going to take steps to defend themselves. As long as you are on firm legal ground, it doesn't matter what a cop personally thinks of that law, he has to abide by it the same as you do. The theory that those of us who call knives "weapons" would not do so in the face of an LEO is simply not correct. Cop asks "Do you have any weapons?", he wants an honest answer. He doesn't want to play "That depends on what the definition of 'weapon' is." He's busy. He has 100 other things he needs to do besides debate semantics.Maybe he's even an hour past his lunch time but still has calls holding. So accomodate the man and say, "I have a pocketknife". Most cops appreciate honesty. There are even cops who are going to look at that knife and say, "That's nice! Where did you get that? I want one, too!" Not all cops are going to see your folder and call the SWAT team. Is a knife a weapon? It certainly is. It EVOLVED from a tool. But back then, it was knapped from flint. Weapons are tools in the sense that man uses tools to do what Nature did not endow him to do with appendages such as fangs, claws, or specialized beaks. In that sense, tools are the extensions of man's hands via the ideas in his mind, motivated by survival instinct. But the officer isn't in the mood to play archaeologist. He just wants to make sure he is safe while he talks to you.

 

[Guyon]

Naw, I don't have to "justify" my knife to anybody. It's legal. I carry it. That's that.

But all knife owners ought to at least try and change people's perceptions. If you simply explain all the useful functions of a knife, some folks will just go "oh yeah, I guess so." Some might even take a greater interest.

Of course, you're not going to reach the people on the extreme left of the political spectrum, but you might stand a chance with those in the middle if you don't come across as Rambo. Folks have to start somewhere, and most are going to be more interested in knives as "tools" than as "deadly weapons." Why do you think politicians always move to the middle come election time? It's just a more stable ground for persuading folks to your side.

In terms of this spectrum, LEOs are already more predisposed to like knives. Heck, here in TN, you can have that same "Cool, where did you get it?" conversation about guns.

 

[Sir Galahad]

I can understand trying to change some peoples' perceptions. But, unless I'm carring a sheath knife, no one is ever going to see the folders I'm carrying. There is only one reason any stranger is ever going to see them. Last comment I had about a sheath knife I was carring was, "Is that legal?" I said yes, it is as lomg as it isn't concealed unless you have a CCW, but you can carry a folder concealed without a CCW. Woman said, cool, she's going to get one, except a folder so she can carry it concealed just in case when she works late. Why? For self-defense. I didn't try and sell her on the "it's a tool" thing. She knew what the knife was for even though I never said so. And, she recognized the value of the knife and immediately made the connection even though I had said nothing insofar as self-defense. I suggested a few quality folders and steered her to the mall knife shop. Getting the average citizen aware of self-defense options, to me, is much more valuable than soothing the hysterical fears of liberals who have to see a "tool". If they want to be victims, hey, be my guest. I'm more interested in talking to people who are interested for their own sake to know that they, too, can carry a knife, rather than justifying my decision to not meekly submit to murder to the same liberals that let those selfsame murderers out of jail in the first place. I have never seen a liberal radical yet that could be convinced that they were wrong about something. If you can convince them, Guyon, more power to you. I find that leftists practically start hyperventilating once you poke the tiniest pinhole in their arguments. So I quit wasting time on them. I hear, "I don't think people should be allowed to own weapons of any kind!", I tell them the Constitution doesn't care what they think and walk away. Not getting in the "last word" really upsets them, but I have better things to do than arge with them.

 

[Guyon]

Reread my post. I agree that debating gun/knife control with dyed-in-the-wool leftists is a waste of breath and energy.

It's the folks on the fence who count the most.

Sidenote: You sent her to the mall knife store?!! I hope it's not like any of the ones around here. Four prices and crappy service. Only the Army-Navy store here offers decent service, but they're still pretty expensive. I'll buy there on occasion when I can afford it, but most knife purchases these days are online.

 

[Sir Galahad]

No, the one here carries Benchmade, CRKT, Cold Steel, Kershaw, SOG...and the staff is pretty sharp. Pretty sharp...get it?. I also sent her to the local gun shop which has an even better selection.

The fence sitters can be crucial. But, as I mentioned, no one sees mine unless I'm carrying a sheath knife. I never use mine as "tools". Most people around here are used to seeing occasional open carry of handguns, so knives are really small potatoes.