Is a magnum primer really necessary for H110 powder in the .44 Magnum?

[DEDON45]

Well, an update is in order...

Emailed Magtech, their response was:

“According to our ballistic manager, the customer can use our 2 ½ primer with no problem, as it has enough energy to initiate the propellant.”

Then I was poking through the little Hodgdon Reloading Manual (not the big one, the little booklet one you get with Lyman products, came with my Case trimmer) ... and it shows their H110 Loads for .44 Magnum using a Remington 2 1/2 (what the Magtech primer is modeled after, even uses the same description) primer to light them off.

I feel pretty positive that I'm fine with the Magtech LP primers, based on these... I still haven't gotten a chronograph, but I'm going to the range at about 3:00PM today, and will have six rounds in hand loaded with CCI Magnum primers to compare with my Magtech loads (24 Grains of H110 behind a Hornady 240Grain XTP bullet -- yeah, it's max--in most manuals, anyway--but no pressure signs in my Ruger) to see if I can see any difference...

 

[DEDON45]

Interesting (to me, anyway) update:

Yes, this thread is back from the dead! I got a new Chronograph (Competition Electronics Digital Pro... got it for 90.00, pretty good deal) and have conducted some "scientific" tests...

I bought some CCI Magnum Large pistol primers, and loaded up 12 rounds with 24 grains of H110, mixed cases (Winchester and PMC), and Hornady 240 grain XTP bullets... did them with the same setup on my LnL AP that I used to load up my other rounds with Magtech primers... also had my buddy with me who used the same bullets, same mixed cases, same charge, but he uses WLP primers exclusively. As an experiment, he also loaded some up with some CCI non-magnum pistol primers he had. Testing was done using his Ruger Blackhawk (6 1/2 barrel) and my Ruger Super Redhawk (it has a 8 1/2 or 9 inch barrel)

My Redhawk showed an average of 1448fps, and an extreme spread of 34fps, for the load with Magtech primers. Same gun, using the CCI Magnum primers, showed an average of 1475fps, with an extreme spread of 44fps. I repeated the test a few times, came up with similar numbers every time. So, while I get more fps with the CCI Magnum primer, I got less consistency... strange.

My buddy then tested the same load, with WLP primers... (his barrel is shorter, thus the lower overall speeds) He got an average of 1290fps, with an extreme spread of 56fps (not sure what that's about, he loads on a older Lyman turret press, while I load on a Hornady LnL AP, at a much faster rate). He also tried out those loads with some CCI 300 primers, got an average of 1335fps (faster!) and an extreme spread of 28fps. Again, these kind of results were repeatable...

My conclusion: There's nothing wrong with using the Magtech 2 1/2 primers in full-house .44 Magnum loads, and even non-magnum CCI primers are more consistent than WLPs... We also tested my .45ACP reloads (I loaded him up a few boxes while we were waiting on his new dies to get here) with both WLP and Magtech primers.... the Magtech loads ended up being more consistent than WLP-primed loads. Not by a lot, but they were more consistent... To put it mildly I was rather surprised, given that the Magtech's are somewhat less expensive than the Winchester primers. The only other factor I can think of that may be an issue with the full-house .44 Magnum loads is temperature; that is, how well do these different primers function at low temperatures. I think next time I'm going to put some rounds in a cooler and try them to see what happens.

Of course, this doesn't mean that the WLPs won't be better in some other load combination or another caliber; but for my .45ACP loads (HS-6 and some AA#5) and .44 Magnum (H110) loads, it isn't.

 

[454PB]

There have been a lot of references to crimp....but no amount of crimp will replace a good tight case grip. I've been in this same discussion before, and I'm one who has had to beat bullets out that were stuck in a barrel. I live in cold country, and I use magnum primers with H-110, WW 296, AAC#9, and WC820.....all slow burning ball powders. I recommend you remove and measure the diameter of your expander ball. For .44 magnum, using .430 bullets, your expander should be no larger than .425". You should see a visible bulge in the area of the loaded brass that the bullet occupies. For my .454 Casulls, using .451" jacketed or .452" cast, my expander measures .448". Whatever primer you choose, all the lack of extreme spread or accuracy are trumped by a bulged barrel or blown gun.

 

[Hook686]

hmmmm I use to use W296 with my magnums. Now I'm using 2400 and have a bunch of magnum primers. I'm using them with the 2400.

 

[Clark]

If you want to reduce the H110 44 mag loads by 10 grains to make old 44 special loads, you will not need a magnum primer.
That would not do any good.
You need a heavy roll crimp.

 

[GaryL]

The only other factor I can think of that may be an issue with the full-house .44 Magnum loads is temperature; that is, how well do these different primers function at low temperatures.

FWIW, I've had no problems with WLP primers lighting off H110 at -20* F. I suspect that's well below any temp you're likely to see in SC.

 

[NCsmitty]

Regardless of the powders used, it's important for more consistent loads to use a good solid crimp as stated before. For my take on the H110/W296 and actually all ball powders, use of magnum primers is the best idea, but should be used from the beginning in working up the loads. You shouldn't switch from standard to magnum primers on near max rated loads that have been previously worked up. Most people are aware of the warnings of reduced loads of H110 too.
I started loading 410 shotshells with the standard 15 gr. of H110 but I was not getting consistent ignition, even some squibs. After I switched to Alliant 410, no more problems.

NCsmitty

 

[DEDON45]

GaryL, I suspected as much; I think the same goes for the Magtech primers... I'm getting more consistency with them (at least with my equipment and 2 different guns). Thanks for the info, that's good know!