Is a shotty for me?

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mr_dove

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I'm looking into a shotgun for HD purposes. I'm curious though. I don't hunt, i don't shoot trap. I don't know if I would actually enjoy shooting shotgun. You obviously need to practice so a certain level of enjoyment is probably suggested.

Basically, all the HD rifles that I like are too expensive so I'm looking at shotguns solely because they are 1)cheap 2) effective.

should I just skip the shotgun if I won't enjoy shooting it or should I buy one and just grin and bear it through practice time?
 
What about shotguns don't you enjoy? The recoil? The noise? You could get a nice 20 gauge for home protection if you wanted.
 
You should get with someone who can give you a chance to try a couple of shotguns with a little instruction in technique- to shorten the learning curve and avoid those painful newbee mistakes.
I don't agree with throwing someone into the deep end to teach them to swim. And I don't like to see a novice handed a 12g and told to "go ahead and touch 'er off".
Learn some, shoot some, and then decide. Don't buy with the philosophy that you need to somehow conquer this daunting new challenge, enjoyable or not. A shotgun is a very effective home defense weapon and loads of fun for lots of other shooting sports.
 
mr_dove,

I think that once you shot it for the first time it would be the beginning of a great relationship. I had never been a gun owner either but I went and shot some trap on a church outing and loved it. I went ahead and purchased a Remington 870 so I could have both a trap gun and an HD gun both in one sweet package.

I don't think you can go wrong with a shotgun...

Falcontech
 
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Most folks I've started off have had a great time from round 1. Givens include good fit, competent instruction and committment.

Go shoot some. Note how hitting a clay disc is instant gratification. If we do a number of things just right, we get an immediate reward.

Besides slaying evil little frisbees, insert a shotgun load into a water filled 2 liter bottle from the distance of the longest shot possible in your home. As you wipe droplets off your glasses, reflect on the human body being mostly aqueous.
 
Shooting a HD shotgun recreationally is about as fun as watching grass grow while being pounded on the shoulder with a mallet.

Shooting at flying clay discs, however, well, as the commercial used to say: if you don't smoke, don't start.:)
 
Most of us don't call our shotguns "shottys". If you have friends who own shotguns try to go with them to go shoot some clays. See if you like it. If that isn't an option, find a clay shooting range and see if someone there gives lessons and sign up for a lesson.

Shotgunning can be fun for hunting and clays. Also, there are several different clay sports - skeet, sporting clays, trap, 5 stand. Try it, you might like it.
 
The first time I shot a shotgun was fairly recently on a buddies new (to him) 590A1. I had no realistic idea of what to expect, and flinched pretty bad the first couple of shots (we were just blasting various jugs and such). At that point I realized that to me it was more bark than bite, and the kick wasn't nearly that bad. It was all downhill from there, shooting trap, buying my own shotgun, breaking it, fixing it, and so on and so forth.

I'd say there's not much that can beat a shotgun for HD, and they are really fun to shoot in less serious situations.
 
Shooting a HD shotgun recreationally is about as fun as watching grass grow while being pounded on the shoulder with a mallet
Not true in my case. I find shooting my 590-a1 12 gauge (with reduced recoil loads) to be a blast. NO pun intended.:D
 
Get a .223 carbine, an AK or even an M4gery. Then you'll be able to practice without giving yourself a flinch, you'll have a shorter, faster, more reliable weapon for HD, and if you ever need to shoot something over 40 yards away, or shoot through a little cover or body armor (SS109), or need quick repeat shots, or need more than 8 shots, or want to carry a decent amount of ammo, or don't want ammo that overpenetrates (55-grain), or just need a precision device to stop a run-on sentence, you'll be set.

Of course if you're ever attacked by a duck you will have to pick your backstop.

(Gets behind thin and shoddy cover to hide from the ensuing storm of No. 4 buck and other 18th century ordnance).
 
I don't know about that, Pezo. My 6.5 pound coach gun kicks like a mule. Then again, maybe I shouldn't shoot 3" magnums out of it, now should I? :D
 
Get a shotgun and bust some clays.

I sheepishly admit that I would love to do that, if I could figure out how to afford the insanely expensive ammunition. All shotgun owners must have relatives that work at the Fed and slip them the interest rate data a week early. I'm sure it makes you much better at hitting moving targets.

PS Is someone eventually going to bring the shotgun into the 19th century with some high-pressure ammo, or are we going to go straight to energy weapons instead?
 
I sheepishly admit that I would love to do that, if I could figure out how to afford the insanely expensive ammunition. All shotgun owners must have relatives that work at the Fed and slip them the interest rate data a week early. I'm sure it makes you much better at hitting moving targets.

PS Is someone eventually going to bring the shotgun into the 19th century with some high-pressure ammo, or are we going to go straight to energy weapons instead?

I don't understand this post. Clays expensive? Whadda ya shoot, 100 rounds at 4 bucks a box from wallyworld? Heck, our club shoots country doubles occasionally and we only shoot five sets each for ten rounds. Get a box of Winchester super speed 7 1/2s from Walmart like I hunt doves with for less than four box, 25 rounds. It's cheaper'n reloadin' the stuff! It's a LOT cheaper than handgun or rifle ammo.

Um, bring the shotgun up to WHAT? Whadda ya mean by "high pressure ammo"? This doesn't really apply to shotguns. Shotguns are about shot in the pattern/pattern density. Bigger the shot, the more "power", but less density. There have been huge advancements in shotgun ammo in my lifetime. Plastic hulls replacing paper was HUGE. I can remember shooting paper when I was a kid, it'd get damp and swell up and you'd just have to chunk it. There have been advancements in slug guns, rifled barrels, saboted hour glass shaped slugs that can shoot 2 MOA and take deer to 150 yards or so. Since the advent of non-toxic shot rules, they've recently come out with Federal Tungsten-Iron, Remington Heavy Shot, Bismuth, all BETTER than lead for taking hard to take game at longish ranges like geese, which I love to shoot. We aren't even close to the 19th century with shotgun technology today. Sounds like you need to do some reading and educate yourself about scatter guns.

Now, as to HD with shotgun vs rifle, I won't consider a rifle in town for any sort of defense. I keep a .38 special by bedside, carry either that .38 or a 9mm daily. I'll put the 9 down on the table by the bed if that's what I'm carrying, as I have been today. I don't keep a long gun for home defense in my tiny home, but have an old double sitting in the corner with five rounds if I'm barricaded in the bedroom and someone breaks in. Takes a second to drop in the rounds and wait for the bedroom door to get kicked open. The round are 00 buck, should do the job at 12 feet I reckon. I don't really practice on stationary targets. Hitting is NOT a problem with a scatter gun on a stationary target. I shoot some clays, duck hunt a LOT in season, shoot doves when I get a chance. My range practice is handgun practice and I play with my rifles out there.

If you're new to shotguns I'd suggest you find a club and get some instruction on wing/clay shooting. It's a TON of fun and when you get to where you can hit a majority out of 25, a stationary target becomes quite boring. :D You might not need another hobby, but clay shooting is FUN and you should try it just to learn how to handle the shotgun. It will make you a much better shotgunner. If you can possibly get some instruction, it would really help you getting started. Wing/clay shooting is a technique thing and it helps to learn the skills and techniques from an accomplished shotgunner.
 
If you have friends who own shotguns try to go with them to go shoot some clays.
OR, you could PM me and the next time Justin, Smoke Rizen and I are shooting pasture clays or Sporting Clays, you could just join us.

Please don't call my Citori or one of my 28 gauges a "Shotty".

(I thought I was the only one bothered by that term. :confused: )
 
Whadda ya mean by "high pressure ammo"?

This, i.e., something that won't bounce off the thinnest and lightest body armor.

There have been advancements in slug guns, rifled barrels

Yes, rifling the barrel is a critical advancement. That was the point of my first post.

Bismuth, all BETTER than lead for taking hard to take game at longish ranges like geese

First let me say that I really apreciate you shooting those @#$% geese (ever been to Rochester?) But I believe that bismuth has a lower density than lead, although it will kill Heliobacter pylori.

4 bucks a box from wallyworld?

16 cents a round? For Cthulu's sake, you shotgunners have no concept of the lifestyle of the .223 shooter. (That is pretty cheap; but how much are the range fees and the clay snipes?) And of course anyone who wants to practice with buck has to pay a lot more for fewer, easier to make shot... (?)

If you're new to shotguns I'd suggest you find a club

I can find the club OK, it's finding the money that's hard.

I keep a .38 special by bedside, carry either that .38 or a 9mm daily.

Better than nothing, for sure. But doesn't hit as hard as .223, and overpenetrates drywall more than .223 55-grain.

Sounds like you need to do some reading and educate yourself about scatter guns.

Thanks for straightening me out. Always a pleasure to meet a Jedi :D
 
Yesterday I shot after work.

125 rounds at $3.32 for a box of 25 (case price) = $16.60

Box of 135 clay targets $9.50

Free range time at state park.

Total = $26.10

Compared to my practical pistol shoot twice a month

200 rounds WWB from Walmart 2 @ $21.00 each, $42.00

Range time $20.00

Total= $62.00
 
$3.32 for a box of 25 (case price) = $16.60

Box of 135 clay targets $9.50

That IS pretty cheap, actually. I stand corrected on that.

The only problem is that this might encourage the poor yeomen to own shotguns instead of rifles, which would be bad for the moral fibre of the country; in these times, everyone needs a Barrett .50 to stop the Terminators. But at least it means fewer of those !@#$ geese.
 
A couple things, Telomerase......

Back when that Davis guy was promoting his Second Chance vests, he had no problem with shooting himself witha 44 mag but balked at taking a short range shotgun round. That was a good idea, a center mass hit with 00 is almost a guaranteed incapacitation against a threat level IIa vest.

Shotguns dump a LOT of energy into a target. Even the miniscule 410 is on the same level as 45 ACP hardball. That last has a nice rep for stopping.

As for reliability I've had two parts break on my 870s in the last 40 some years and upwards of 70K rounds.

Choose a rifle if you want to. But do not mock those who choose differently because we may run across you at a range and just plain flat out humiliate you.

You do go to ranges, correct?
 
>a center mass hit with 00 is almost a guaranteed incapacitation against a threat level IIa vest.

At point blank range, you might stun someone for while if you're lucky (unless they have real armor with trauma plates). But would you rather face someone who might be able to stun you under the best of conditions, or someone whose bullets would zip right through you?

As for reliability I've had two parts break on my 870s in the last 40 some years and upwards of 70K rounds

I doubt you've short-stroked your pump lately, either. But remember this was about a HD weapon for someone with no shotgun experience. AKs don't short-stroke very often. (And you're cheating... now you're specifying the 870!)

Shotguns dump a LOT of energy into a target. Even the miniscule 410 is on the same level as 45 ACP hardball.

Yes, shotguns are more powerful than handguns. But they are the size of rifles. Let's compare the energy levels of a whole magazine from an FAL, M-1A, Saiga .308, Garand...

But do not mock those who choose differently because we may run across you at a range and just plain flat out humiliate you.

(?) There's no mocking going on here. Did you Google the HK CAWS? I'm totally serious, someone should update the smoothbore. With the same pressure as a rifle, it could be a useful weapon instead of a wallhanger. (Could those Saiga 12s handle higher pressure rounds if the gas system was tuned?)

Remember, this is the 21st Century! We're going to have to start coming up with stuff designed after 1900.
 
I've got nuthin against a rifle and in some circumstances, it is the weapon of choice. But this is the shotgun forum and I'm trying to think of anything as broad-spectrum applicable as a good 12 guage shotgun.
From woodcock to whitetail, flying clay or bad guys, nothing else even comes close.
 
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