is corrosive ammo worth it?

[jason41987]

ive been thinking.. mostly of the negative things people say about having an AR15.. having to clean regulardly and keep lubed being too high maintainence..

then i look at AKs where only surplus corrosive ammo is available.. and cleaning immediately after shooting, then re-oiling is even more important for them, and the cleaning has to be pretty much complete to remove the corrosive salts that will touch every internal part of the rifle.. get inside the bolt, inside the trigger mechanism and rust what would appear to be immediately if not immediately addressed..

so.. i hear people claiming you can go months without ever cleaning an AK.. shooting a steady volume of corrosive ammunition, how much of an AK would be left after a few months of no cleaning?

this seems to completely negate the "never have to clean" factor of AKs and take away one of its biggest advantages of being able to run in any environment.. and for what?.. so old ammo more reliably fires?.. how old do non corrosive primers have to be before reliability becomes an issue?..

 

[Ash]

The AK was built to fire corrosive ammo. It was designed to operate in the field without detail stripping after firing it. The salts do get places but cleaning isn't a big deal. The bore is chromed so it's fine, the gas piston is fine, too. There are places, like the gas block that you'd rather not rust out, but I've never had a significant problem dealing with corrosive ammo. And the evidence is everywhere - AK's in Africa for 40 years that have never been cleaned and still run. They look ugly as sin, but they work.

Corrosive primers have several things going for them. First, they do last much longer and can be more reliable. Neither really a significant advantage with ammo that is fresh (say, newer than 20 years) and that has been stored well. For militaries which use them, the troops are expected to clean their weapons and keep them clean. But, then again, the same is required of our troops using non-corrosive ammo. And cleaning for corrosive ammo is simple and easy. The salts don't get everywhere, not to the extent you describe.

The main thing that corrosively-primed ammo has going for it is cost. It is much cheaper to shoot, more so because it is corrosive and some folks avoid it like a leaper colony. If I can save $50 or more on a single shooting outing by using corrosive ammo, then I'm going to do it. I'm not so lazy that I'd rather blow money than clean.

Would I use corrosive on an AR? I probably wouldn't because the rifle was not designed to shoot corrosive ammo (corrosive .223 isn't all that common anyway). The gas system will have to be cleaned, and the salts will be spread out through the receiver and bolt. THAT could be a pain to clean.

 

[jason41987]

the corrosive salts are still going to get inside an AK though.. most of it will be in the barrel and gas system, sure, but when that bolt opens up and flies back its going to drag some of it back into the receiver..

and its more of a peace of mind issue.. not having to wonder if you cleaned that one nook or cranny or not and dripping an AK in boiling soapy water after every shooting seems like it would be a PITA and im not sure spraying windex with ammonia is all that great.. ammonia can be pretty bad too

 

[Hummer70]

chrome will not stop pitting. Went to a funeral several years back and traded for a SKS in parking lot afterwards. got home, cleaned it and it looked OK till I put the bore scope downt he barrel. Pitted heavily all the way through the barrel. I have over half of a 20MM can full of SL53 30.06 primed cases (all corrosive) and I plan on easing in L E Wilson decap rod and pushing the primers out before I ever use them as soon as I find the can which is giving me a fit of how I can lose a 20MM can of anything! ! !!

 

[Ash]

What country made your SKS? Yugoslavian SKS's were not chromed at all and some early Soviet models lacked it as well. Chrome plating does prevent pitting from corrosive ammo. There does come a point that neglect can over power chrome, but it does work.

 

[Robert]

I clean my AR once every 1000 rounds or so and just lube it before a match. I may do a wipe down every now and then but that is not a cleaning, I just pop the carrier out, wipe it off with a rag and pop it back in. Takes 20 secs.

I have shot corrosive through my K98 and No1 MkIII for years now with no adverse reactions. But then again I do not let them sit for days after a firing. Cleaning is simple. Hot water down the barrel to wash out all the salts then clean and oil like normal.

 

[fireside44]

then i look at AKs where only surplus corrosive ammo is available..

Where you been Jay? Non-corrosive AK ammo is everywhere! Get an AK! Do I sound like a fanboy? I am cause there is a good reason for it!

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Is corrosive primed ammo worth it? Depends on what "it" is. If cheap ammo is your goal, I would say yes if you don't mind cleaning. However. Corrosive primers work in subzero temperatures better than most non-corrosive primers. Russians prefer corrosive primed ammo even though they do make and export non-corrosve primed ammo.

Most military surplus 7.62x39mm and 7.62x54R ammo is corrosive primed, but most of the commercial 7.62x39mm and 7.62x54R imported from Russia is labeled non corrosive (especially ammo sold for the US hunting market).

Yugoslavia did not always have chrome available and it is safer to assume a Yugo SKS or AK barrel is not chromeplated and clean them well. I have owned and shot black powder revolvers and rifles for decades so I am used to the drill of clean thoroughly starting with hot soapy water-dry-oil, clean again in three days, then a week later. (Makes AR maintenance look lax.)

 

[powder]

ive been thinking.. mostly of the negative things people say about having an AR15.. having to clean regulardly and keep lubed being too high maintainence..

Err, no offense but, if pulling one pin and one bolt carrier group is ..." too high maintenance."?

Gently run a solvent patch down the barrel, let it sit for 3-5 minutes, run a nylon brush down it, follow with clean/dry patches til they come out much cleaner, then run an oiled patch down it. Use a bore guide if you want to get particular.

In between all that you're spraying off and wiping down the BCG and chamber. Takes less than 10 minutes. There's tons of YouTube vids out there if you are unfamiliar.

 

[Willie Sutton]

"Use a bore guide if you want to get particular"

Yes indeed. You absolutely need to preserve that famous AK-47 "match quality accuracy"...


Want to clean out the salts? Do what was done for eons: Hot water and a dash of soap on a brush and then swab with oil. You'll never worry about your bore again.

If I was limited to one word of advice it would be "Ballistol".


Willie

.

 

[wally]

I've a 5.45x39 AR upper and shooting corrosive surplus is no big deal, I just restrict its shooting to times cleaning afterwards won't be an issue.

Its corrosive like driving your car along the ocean, not like the blood of the alien.

 

[jason41987]

lmao at that misconception of AKs being sooooooooo inaccurate because someone shot some 40 year old surplus through some cheaply put together wasr one time... try a polish beryl rifle and see what happens.. ive even seen saigas that have shot BETTER tha 1" groups at 100 yards with match ammo.. the design itself has nothing to do with its accuracy

now to get on topic.. i think id rather actually pay a bit more for the peace of mind that if im in any situation where i cant immediately pour boiling hot water down my barrel that its not going to corrode.. i think the benefits of the corrosive primed ammo being more reliable through long storage and cold weather are fantastic from a military standpoint, or anyone who wants to buy stuff and keep it in storage for 20 years or so and for these reasons im more inclined to buy a couple spam cans of 5.45 and store it just in case imported ammo ever gets banned or it dries up.. but i think for the majority of shooting id probably rather have non corrosive

what i think i need to do is start reloading for 5.45 by removing the berdan primer, converting the primer pocket to boxer primers and loading with .224 bullets swaged down to .221 for general use where shooting in severely cold temperatures or extremely long term storage isnt an issue for me (and yes, you can reload steel cased ammo to, ive reloaded countless steel 7.62x54R cases.. typically i dont even resize since i only have one 7.62x54R rifle)

in short.. i think the added peace of mind is worth a little bit more cost.. sure its not going to be as extremely cheap as corrosive, but wolf is not that badly priced and some of their stuff is non-corrosive.. i think ill start shooting more of that, and as i said, convert to boxer-primer pockets and reload with resized .224" bullets

 

[Willie Sutton]

"if im in any situation where i cant immediately pour boiling hot water down my barrel"


Actually.... in most environments... you can wait about a year...


Willie

.

 

[ball3006]

Where have you guys been? Non corrosive AK ammo has been on the market for at least 15 years. Probably longer. Myself, being a C&R junkie, always shoot, clean, store away. To treat for corrosive ammo is just one step added to the rifle cleaning. chris3

 

[jason41987]

ball, to be specific my AK is not 7.62x39, and though wolf does sell non corrosive ammo at decent price, most ammo for 5.45 is still corrosive surplus

 

[akv3g4n]

It's worth it for me.

I'm pretty heavily invested in the 5.45 caliber and shoot exclusively corrosively primed ammo. I just do as stated by others above and do the hot water cleaning method and give the weapon a thorough cleaning. Takes about 45 minutes but I enjoy it. Just more time with the rifle. It's all part of the process.

 

[briansmithwins]

I've shot a few thousand rounds of corrosive Yugo M67 thru my AK and have had no problems with rust and I live on the wet side of Oregon.


It's the salts from the corrosive primer that suck water from the air. If you live in a desert or other place where the relative humidity is under around 35% there isn't enough water in the air to get the reaction going.


That said, I don't live in a desert (more like anti-desert) so I have to clean. My normal cleaning routine is to brush down everything that has powder fouling on it with soapy water, dry, and then oil with a good gun oil. The water dissolves and flushes the salt away, the soap cuts the oily fouling and lets the water work better. The gun oil is important. A good gun oil will have anti-corrosive additives in it that will inhibit the salts activity if you missed any, as well as protecting the any bare steel.

After all that I strip the rifle in the next day or so and check for any rust spots that are starting. If I find any I reclean and reoil.

I've cleaned a AK after a rifle match in the rain using that method and when I got home around two hours later the rifle had water in it and on it, but no rust.

The corrosive Yugo M67 is what I shot at our local match for about 3 years. I needed cheap ammo that didn't have a steel jacketed or core and M67 doesn't. Plus, it is very well made ammo.

BSW

 

[Mauserguy]

I shoot lots of corrosive ammo in my Mosins and it saves quite a bit of money. Some years ago, fearing rust, I got the idea to pour a cheap oil down the barrel and whipe down all of the areas exposed to powder fouling to prevent rust until I got home. The practice would only take about two minutes.

I used a bottle of cheap hypoid gear oil I had in the garage. Not only did this method work at preventing any rust during the drive home, I found that it would loosen all of the fowling and make the actual cleaning very easy. It actually reduced my cleaning effort!

Corrosive is no big deal if you are willing to do just a few minutes of work.
Mauserguy

 

[tahunua001]

in 54R, yes corrosive ammo is worth it, it costs about half as much as modern made ammo, as long as you clean right after shooting(and it doesn't have to be while you're still at the range) then you'll have no rusting issues.

other commie cartridges like the x39s are losing their appeal however. prices have gone up so high it's just as cheap to buy non-corrosive tula... how do I know? I just bought 2000 rounds of that crap for cheaper than any surplus ammo I've seen in the last year.

 

[jason41987]

i think for a bolt action with so few of parts.. less complicated parts that small effort isnt so bad.. but having to take apart the guts of something like an AK, in the trigger group and gas tube, trunnions, theres more small places that crap could get into

 

[Kleanbore]

I failed to clean a 98k that I fired once--one shot--with corrosive ammo. The barrel was ruined in 24 hours.

I was a very rainy and humid day. That very probably contributed to the speed of the reaction

 

[ldlfh7]

If one shot can ruin a barrel, how did troops fight battles without ruining their rifles every day? Did they stop and clean during battle? What was the cleaning protocol during the wars?

 

[tahunua001]

I'm afraid I must concur, one day is not nearly enough time for a barrel to become unusable unless it was already on it's last legs.

 

[jason41987]

what about the image people paint of AKs being dragged through the mud and dirt for months at a time with no proper cleaning.. what bullcrap.. 1 week of that with corrosive ammo and the gun would be destroyed

 

[tahunua001]

again, a week is not long enough for a gun to rust beyond use unless you are also exposing it to electrolysis. now I will agree that an AK dragged through the mud and using corrosive ammo and never cleaned is going to break very quickly but we are talking about rusting, shooting the rust out and then another layer of rust forming. deep level rust takes months and even years to form. unless you are constantly stripping surface rust off and letting the newly polished surface to rust then repeating that cycle, a gun is not going to become unserviceable in the time frames being specified. I am no fan of AKs and I personally owned one that was a rust bucket but there seems to be a little bit of ignorance here regarding rust and corrosive ammo.