Is Domestic Violence Statute Constitutional?

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18 U.S.C. Sec. 922(g)(9) makes it a crime to possess a firearm or ammunition if you have been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.

Under 18 U.S.C. § 924(a)(2) a violation of 922(g) is a felony that can get you up to 10 years in prison.

How can it be Constitutional for a lawful firearm owner to become a felon by committing a misdemeanor? Exspecially if firearm possession in the home is a fundamental right?

Have there been any pre-Heller/McDonald cases to address this question?
My quick look at yesterday's case out of the 7th Circuit did not find this issue.
 
"They" didn't say it was "Constitutional", they just said it was the law.

Until someone gets charged with that felony, and brings this issue up in court, the "Constitutional" question will never be answered.

Of course the down side is if the answer doesn't go your way, you still get the 10 years.
 
Did they overturn the retroactive part of the law? The Constitution prohibits that.

No mere law should be able to revoke a right. Even a felony...it's an inalienable right. If a person convicted of a felony is not suitable to be trusted with a firearm, then they should not be walking around on the street.
 
I do believe that when you are arrested on the Felony charge, your guns will be taken then. They are, after all, evidence of the charge. A suspected thief doesn't get to keep the "stolen goods" until the appeals are over.

In the best of circumstances, you won't see them again for a very very long time, if ever.

Perhaps you should be consulting an attorney rather than grasping at straws on the internet?
 
The law effected those whose convictions occurred before the law went into effect. It doesn't matter what the charge is: It could be anything from domestic assault to having your charge plead down to jaywalking. If the charge stems from a DV case then you might as well kiss your guns good bye.
 
The law effected those whose convictions occurred before the law went into effect. It doesn't matter what the charge is: It could be anything from domestic assault to having your charge plead down to jaywalking. If the charge stems from a DV case then you might as well kiss your guns good bye.
A DV charge will likely sink any CCP application pronto, at least here in the Lower Wetlands.

Tom
 
The courts have in the past upheld the retro-active aspects of this law. The court in Skoien said that the laws lifetime ban for a misdemeanor might or might not be constitutional - but that they were not going to address that issue even though it was an issue brought up by the plaintiff. So essentially the court said this may or may not be constitutional and thousands may be prosecuted under this law but we feel no duty to address it now.

Given that the 7th circuit also essentially chose to ignore all the dicta guiding the USSC decisions in Heller and McDonald and instead chose to essentially use the guidelines set out by Justice Breyer in the minorities opinion in Heller and McDonald, (the balancing test explicitly rejected by the majority in their opinions), this sets a precendent that all gun control laws may be okay excluding blanket bans on guns kept in the home.

So the right to keep and bear arms was a fundamental individual right for what one or two weeks before the lower federal circuits found a way to effectively gut the right of any real meaning and set a precendent that allows almost any infringement.

By the way, this is also the court/circuit that will hear the cases on the new Chicago gun laws - I can hear Daley laughing now.
 
I do believe that when you are arrested on the Felony charge, your guns will be taken then. They are, after all, evidence of the charge. A suspected thief doesn't get to keep the "stolen goods" until the appeals are over.

Not a very good correlation of examples. Guns are NOT "evidence of the charge" unless you used a gun in the commitment of the crime. If the charge is felony auto theft and no gun was used or even present in the theft then the guns are not evidence.
 
MinnMooney said:
Not a very good correlation of examples. Guns are NOT "evidence of the charge" unless you used a gun in the commitment of the crime. If the charge is felony auto theft and no gun was used or even present in the theft then the guns are not evidence.

However.... I would suggest that it would be sound advice that if a person were to find themselves charged with either a domestic violence crime or a felony that before that person goes to trial they relinquish all of their firearms to a trusted friend or trusted relative. In the event of a conviction which would result in a lifetime ban on possession, it would be easier and more financially beneficial for the trusted friend or relative to buy and/or otherwise dispose of those firearms by selling them than it would be for the police/courts to possibly confiscate those firearms.
 
one case on no right to a jury trail for DV -

http://ia311514.us.archive.org/3/items/gov.uscourts.ndd.21145/gov.uscourts.ndd.21145.17.0.pdf

basically states that loss of the RKBA is not significant enough to warrent a jury trail.

two cases based on an ex post facto challenge: United States v. Brady, 26 F.3d 282 (2d Cir.) and United States v. Waters, 23 F.3d 29 (2d Cir. 1994)

as I have been given to understand, basically state that because one can possess or not possess arms - the offense of possessing arms in violation of the law does not occur until the arrest and therefore it is not ex post facto.
 
So a draft dodger who knocks his wife's teeth out with a two by four can plead no contest and a wounded Medal of Honor winner who pleads to a misdemeanor after slapping his wife once becomes a felon by operation of law because he keeps his great grandfather's relic from the Civil War.

Go figure.
 
The domestic violence statute is certainly not Constitutional under several criteria.

The most blatant, though it wouldn't set any precedent for RKBA is that it was retroactive in its effects. Someone convicted in 1970 still lost their rights when it was passed.

This effected a lot more people than one would expect, and was most notable with many police, military, and various forms of security that had to have firearms for their career.



Many people associate domestic violence with "wife beaters". But the truth is, especially before Lautenberg passed this legislation, that a lot of people in messy divorces or with spousal problems had plead guilty to petty charges just to be done with a situation and move on.
Even many who had not done what was accused, when offered some deal like a couple days community service accepted.
It didn't remove your rights before it retroactively did in 1996, and some considered it a small price to pay prior. Even today many non-gun owners are not aware they can lose their rights over it, so many not fight it with thousands of dollars and refuse to take any deals, and then find out later they have no gun rights.

The other thing is what can count as domestic violence is very petty, in no way needing to approach "wife beating". Just getting in each others' face in what is considered an intimidating manner can be an "assault". No contact is necessary for an assault.
Even a battery can be very petty: Wife or girlfriend has a tantrum and starts breaking things and you grab her wrists and she yanks away or tries to go back to breaking things or even hitting you?
Well to hold on would take a relatively tight grip, the kind of grip that can easily bruise a woman (women bruise much easier than men because their higher ratio of body fat makes blood vessels less elastic and susceptible to breakage, just look at most female athletes they are covered in bruises the men who do similar things are not.)
That will readily be a battery charge, resulting in charges if the police show up. Even if it is just because a neighbor calls after hearing the argument, which was over 5 minutes later, and both spouses were working out the issue.

Or a women slapping a man, that is an actual strike, and obviously certainly a battery.
Yet Hollywood taught a whole generation of women that the right thing to do when your honor is insulted by a man is give them an open handed slap across the face.
Lifetime prohibition.
Or the drink in the face, yet another battery, yet it is another thing women who are insulted have been taught to do in some circles.
Lifetime prohibition if charged.


Then of course you have the blatant lies. Men and women are known to claim all sorts of lies or exaggerations in divorces, or custody battles. Or set up or frame the other to gain some sort of leverage. Some bitter towards the other for years.
Anyone can claim an unrelated mark, or bruise was put there by a spouse. Or even intentionally make a new one (knew a girl that actually hit herself in the face to get her boyfriend in trouble after he cheated on her.)




Now about being Constitutional outside of the retroactive aspect? It certainly would appear the permanent removal of the rights of someone "free" in society was against the intent of the founders.

However if removal of the rights of any felon is valid...(and there is some really petty felonies too, including some things people wouldn't even know was a crime. Along with some that are non-violent but obvious crimes, and then of the course the serious violent ones.)
Congress in 1968 decided that felons would be prohibited. If that is valid then why would Congress prohibiting all domestic violence convictions not be?
What about all misdemeanors period? Or maybe more than 3 traffic tickets in 5 years? (That habitual traffic violator who has demonstrated they cannot be trusted in society with several tons of transportation, so certainly could be even more dangerous or irresponsible with a weapon! :neener: )
Congress made the law in 1996, just as they made the one in 1968. If Congress can remove rights, then why couldn't Congress continue to remove rights for additional offenses?
 
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Correct bushmaster1313, except that the DV statutes don't necessarily require any physical contact - it could be making a verbal threat of physical violence on the phone in a moment of anger - then being taken to court without the benefit of a jury and having a judge determine that you made a threatening remark and finding you guilty and thus are banned for life from having a firearm. Then to expand from your example - getting rid of all your guns - but forgetting the old civil war gun and having a vindictive ex call the police after she sees it still hanging on the mantle and voila, you are a felon.
 
Here's the simple answer.
Most citizens don't care if a D/V conviction leads to a loss of one's rights.
So they're not going to fight for the rights of the accused.

Is it right? Who knows. We all make compromises in daily life to protect an orderly society.
 
"We all make compromises in daily life to protect an orderly society."

True, and we all accept risk to ensure a free society.
 
"... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; "

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense."

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."
 
DV laws scare <...> me. My thought on the issue is that it's unconstitutional, but so are many laws we live under. When the whole job of a legislator is to make laws, after a few years you have so many what do you do?

For me in my home and life, I have a wife that I adore, and that I lived with before marriage to make sure we were going to be good together. I KNOW we will never have a situation that the police are called on for DV.

Now, my Mother is another story. She is very mentally ill at times, and when her depression comes back I keep my children and wife away from her. She is my mother, but in that state she does not come to my home, and I have no contact with her. I will not put myself in that position to loose my 2nd ammendment right. When she gets back to her norm, we accept her lovingly back into our home.
 
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