Why is it that either game is getting tougher or is something else going on? People used to feel that a 30/30, 32 special, 35 Rem. were fine for deer. A 30-06 was considered adequate for just about any game in NA. In my sportsmans club, I see more and more people claiming that you have to use a 7mm mag, a 300 winmag, the SSMs, etc for deer? From all the push to hotter and hotter cartridges you would think the old ones weren't able to do the job anymore. For some of these guys, hunting means being able to hit a deer in the next county rather than stealth or just being able to sit still and wait. Wait all day for several days if necessary. Ran into some of these types today and just had to complain.
Is game getting tougher??
- Thread starter Oldnamvet
- Start date
- Status
Cosmoline
Member
IMHO it's about 60% marketing and 40% poor marksmanship. And by poor marksmanship I include trying to take shots at way too great a distance. The .30'06 is still more than powerful enough for anything in North America, including the great bears. And since rifles last so long your grandfather's .30'06 will continue to work just fine through your lifetime. But rifle companies want to sell more rifles to us in the mean time, so they try to convince people that they need the super-short ultra-mag such-and-such in order to kill anything.
The only argument for the big magnums in NA would be that certain game has gotten a lot harder to find, and if you've been lucky enough to get your name drawn to take XYZ rare animal, you want to be absolutely sure you can do it. That said, many game animals from most species of deer to black bear and from bison to certain herds of elk have gotten a lot MORE plentiful than they were in the 1920's. There are many parts of the lower 48 where you're practically tripping over the deer. The last time I hiked on the Pacific Crest Trail the mule deer were darting out of the bushes like giant rabbits, there were so many of them. I obviously don't hunt them up here, but honestly I can't see why you'd need anything more than a .30-30.
The only argument for the big magnums in NA would be that certain game has gotten a lot harder to find, and if you've been lucky enough to get your name drawn to take XYZ rare animal, you want to be absolutely sure you can do it. That said, many game animals from most species of deer to black bear and from bison to certain herds of elk have gotten a lot MORE plentiful than they were in the 1920's. There are many parts of the lower 48 where you're practically tripping over the deer. The last time I hiked on the Pacific Crest Trail the mule deer were darting out of the bushes like giant rabbits, there were so many of them. I obviously don't hunt them up here, but honestly I can't see why you'd need anything more than a .30-30.
MNgoldenbear
Member
Cosmoline, I'm not sure I'd include the long shots under poor marksmanship. True, many people take shots out of their effective range (their range, not necessarily the cartridge's range), but I'd attribute that more to attitude. It shows a general lack of patience and discipline, characteristics that run rampant in society today. Rather than develop the skill to stalk close to game, and being willing to go home empty handed or without even taking a shot, many shooters want that magic bullet that will kill regardless of how they use the firearm. I've told people that we call it "hunting", not "getting". It it fine to use a sufficiently powerful cartridge and get a sure kill with a good shot. Unfortunately, what the faster rounds seem to be doing is encouraging people to take marginal shots, hoping the gun will "work it's magic", resulting in wounded and lost game. The best we can do is keep a civil tongue and educate, by word and example, these hunters about responsible hunting practices.
Preacherman
Member
Oldnamvet, I hear you... For brush hunting in northern and central Louisiana, my favorite carry piece is a good ol' .30-30. Does the job at brush ranges, very effective round, minimal follow-up. (A .44 Magnum lever gun is just as good.) For longer ranges (out to 300 yards, which is the furthest I'll shoot at game), my .308 suits me just fine.
The only reason I can see for a more powerful round than the .308 or .30-'06 is to stop a dangerous animal in a charge. For that, a .45-70 in a modern loading, or the venerable .375 H&H, will do just fine for anything in North America. (Being an African born and bred, I'll take the .375 for preference, having used it there: but I won't feel undergunned with a Marlin full loaded with Garrett or Buffalo Bore stompers in .45-70, either.
)
All the other calibers are really "icing on the cake": they're not actually needed, just a bit flatter- or faster-shooting than the old reliables. For those who like them, great! - but I could do very well with a decent .30-caliber rifle for almost all my hunting needs.
The only reason I can see for a more powerful round than the .308 or .30-'06 is to stop a dangerous animal in a charge. For that, a .45-70 in a modern loading, or the venerable .375 H&H, will do just fine for anything in North America. (Being an African born and bred, I'll take the .375 for preference, having used it there: but I won't feel undergunned with a Marlin full loaded with Garrett or Buffalo Bore stompers in .45-70, either.
)All the other calibers are really "icing on the cake": they're not actually needed, just a bit flatter- or faster-shooting than the old reliables. For those who like them, great! - but I could do very well with a decent .30-caliber rifle for almost all my hunting needs.
Vern Humphrey
Member
When I was a boy on the ranch, I carried a .30-30 on the saddle constantly -- I killed plenty of deer, and sometimes coyotes, coons, groundhogs, whatever I ran into. The rifle was a tool.
The rifle is no longer an always-with-me tool, it's a part of a special dream -- the annual elk hunt. The hunt is special, and so must the rifle be (I hope we all realize the rifle is a sacred instrument.) I could kill an elk with my old .30-30 -- but just being in the mountains with Bigfoot Wallace, my custom '03 in .35 Brown-Whelen means something. I see a guy with a shiny new .300 RUM, and I don't laugh at him -- I understand him.
Also, I think part of the problem is we assume the old timers used what was best -- in reality they used what was available. For a long time, for example, there were precious few bolt-action rifles made in America, other than military. Even right up until just before the war, finding a magnum-length action was difficult. But .30-30s were plentiful. And bubbaized Springfields, M1917 Enfields and Mausers were cheap.
Another part of the problem is that the game has indeed changed. Elk were once found throughout the continent, mostly in low-lying areas. People lived on farms, and had plenty of opportunities to hunt. Nowadays, while game is once again plentiful, it isn't necessarily as readily accessable as it once was. When a man spends a whole year dreaming about one shot -- and drives half-way across the country to make it -- I can understand why he would want a special rifle.
The rifle is no longer an always-with-me tool, it's a part of a special dream -- the annual elk hunt. The hunt is special, and so must the rifle be (I hope we all realize the rifle is a sacred instrument.) I could kill an elk with my old .30-30 -- but just being in the mountains with Bigfoot Wallace, my custom '03 in .35 Brown-Whelen means something. I see a guy with a shiny new .300 RUM, and I don't laugh at him -- I understand him.
Also, I think part of the problem is we assume the old timers used what was best -- in reality they used what was available. For a long time, for example, there were precious few bolt-action rifles made in America, other than military. Even right up until just before the war, finding a magnum-length action was difficult. But .30-30s were plentiful. And bubbaized Springfields, M1917 Enfields and Mausers were cheap.
Another part of the problem is that the game has indeed changed. Elk were once found throughout the continent, mostly in low-lying areas. People lived on farms, and had plenty of opportunities to hunt. Nowadays, while game is once again plentiful, it isn't necessarily as readily accessable as it once was. When a man spends a whole year dreaming about one shot -- and drives half-way across the country to make it -- I can understand why he would want a special rifle.
I agree 100%. When that 400 class bull elk is grazing on a wide open hill side and I can only get within 450 yards, I want something other than an old 30-30. Now before guys start rolling their eyes, understand I live and hunt in the wide open spaces of the west. A 450 yard shot on an elk is common, and for the guy who has the ability and the equipment, shots to 500 yards, with good wind, are a piece of cake.
mustanger98
Member
I can understand both points of view, that .30-30 and .30-06 are fine, and that some folks want a special rifle for the special hunt. I've been trying to get a couple of special rifles worked out too, although they're not bigger than 8mm Mauser (original K98k). I'm 31 years old and grew up with my Daddy and the whole ".30-30'll git-r-done" deal and I'm a die-hard .30-30 fan. Hence my posts where I talk about how I wouldn't be past using 170grainers on elk inside 150yds with my old tang-sighted '94. However, in a way, I'd really like to make that hunt with a rifle I built to suit me on a 03A3 or K98k barreled action, as I've seen some really beautiful sporter jobs on those, and handloaded for in the respective chambering.
An Israeli FN K98k action comes to mind to barrel to .243 or .308 Winchester. But for what I do with a rifle, my old .30-30'll git-r-done. And there's a reason the old '94's a classic deer rifle; light weight and easily aimable, kinda like pointing a wand. And the recoil don't give me the jumps mid-squeeze. I've mentioned that I competed in a cast lead match back in August with my old '94. I was competing against a field made up mostly of .45-70, placed 3rd in the offhand division, and took their money in the Quigley bucket match. Yeah, I'm a believer.
As for some people taking too long a shot for their own ability and equipment, I see that too. Most of my shots here are probably within 50yds, but my old '94's good well past 100yds if I do my part. Elmer Keith, who was known for shooting long range, even advocated getting as close as possible. The reason he didn't care for .30-30 was the animals he was dealing with at the distances he dealt with.
An Israeli FN K98k action comes to mind to barrel to .243 or .308 Winchester. But for what I do with a rifle, my old .30-30'll git-r-done. And there's a reason the old '94's a classic deer rifle; light weight and easily aimable, kinda like pointing a wand. And the recoil don't give me the jumps mid-squeeze. I've mentioned that I competed in a cast lead match back in August with my old '94. I was competing against a field made up mostly of .45-70, placed 3rd in the offhand division, and took their money in the Quigley bucket match. Yeah, I'm a believer.
As for some people taking too long a shot for their own ability and equipment, I see that too. Most of my shots here are probably within 50yds, but my old '94's good well past 100yds if I do my part. Elmer Keith, who was known for shooting long range, even advocated getting as close as possible. The reason he didn't care for .30-30 was the animals he was dealing with at the distances he dealt with.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Lotsa other stuff: Yeah, more deer, but not as many trophy bucks--bragging bucks--are found all over the place. This holds true for mule deer and elk as well as white tail.
Think about the permit system for non-resident hunters in western states. Add in the relatively short amount of time for trophy hunts.
So, the really big trophy critters may be only seen at around the 250- to 400-yard distances; shoot it or forget it, in many instances.
Back in the days of the WCF pistol/rifle cartridges, and the heyday of the thutty-thutty, folks were more after meat than Ol' Biggie. Ranges are still close if you're a doe hunter, or are content with the young six-and eight-pointers. I've killed a fair number of deer with a "real" rifle that I could just as easily have killed with a .22LR between the eyes.
So, you add it all up, including marketing and gunzine BS. And add in the common American penchant for Bigger Must Be Better...
, Art
Think about the permit system for non-resident hunters in western states. Add in the relatively short amount of time for trophy hunts.
So, the really big trophy critters may be only seen at around the 250- to 400-yard distances; shoot it or forget it, in many instances.
Back in the days of the WCF pistol/rifle cartridges, and the heyday of the thutty-thutty, folks were more after meat than Ol' Biggie. Ranges are still close if you're a doe hunter, or are content with the young six-and eight-pointers. I've killed a fair number of deer with a "real" rifle that I could just as easily have killed with a .22LR between the eyes.
So, you add it all up, including marketing and gunzine BS. And add in the common American penchant for Bigger Must Be Better...
, Artmustanger98
Member
Right. Plus a lot of people thinking in terms of macho image and not considering that "more power" can really mess you up... stories I've heard of guys getting busted up by their own rifles... broke collar bones, etc... I read an article a while back where the author opined that "any cartridge that makes a lightweight rifle kick harder is doing the deer a big favor by making us flinch and miss". To that I'll add that same cartridge that supposedly did the deer a big favor might have also created an inhumane situation allowing a deer to escape wounded and die slowly and painfully, never to be recovered.
No... I'll stick to .30-30, .243, .303, up to 8mm Mauser where needed.
MNgoldenbear
Member
+1 mustanger98
Saw a poor little kid at the range one day. Kid had to be all of 12 or so, small and skinny, looked more like 10. Obviously hadn't shot much, let alone heavy centerfire stuff. His dad was "getting him ready" for a hunting trip, and had him shooting his 338 Win. Not a bad round at all for a more experienced shooter, but this poor kid was flinching out of his shoes! He was saying how cool it was, and that he could shoot it just like Dad (I suppose -- Dad didn't seem to be a great shot anyway.) He set up again without working the bolt, so I watched him. As he tried to pull the trigger, he jerked the gun, jerked his head up, and flipped his feet up and nearly kicked the bottom of the shooting bench. First "whole body flinch" I think I've ever seen. We were trying to talk the dad into investing in or even borrowing something more manageable for a youngster (maybe 7-08, 243, etc.) that the kid could probably shoot now and keep using into adulthood. They were not planning on going after very large game, and distance did not seem to be a big consideration either. The dad just gave the "he's man enough to take it" response. The kid kept it up because he looked up to his dad so much, but it was really sad. With that much determination, he probably could have become quite a shot with a lighter-recoiling rifle.
Saw a poor little kid at the range one day. Kid had to be all of 12 or so, small and skinny, looked more like 10. Obviously hadn't shot much, let alone heavy centerfire stuff. His dad was "getting him ready" for a hunting trip, and had him shooting his 338 Win. Not a bad round at all for a more experienced shooter, but this poor kid was flinching out of his shoes! He was saying how cool it was, and that he could shoot it just like Dad (I suppose -- Dad didn't seem to be a great shot anyway.) He set up again without working the bolt, so I watched him. As he tried to pull the trigger, he jerked the gun, jerked his head up, and flipped his feet up and nearly kicked the bottom of the shooting bench. First "whole body flinch" I think I've ever seen. We were trying to talk the dad into investing in or even borrowing something more manageable for a youngster (maybe 7-08, 243, etc.) that the kid could probably shoot now and keep using into adulthood. They were not planning on going after very large game, and distance did not seem to be a big consideration either. The dad just gave the "he's man enough to take it" response.
The kid kept it up because he looked up to his dad so much, but it was really sad. With that much determination, he probably could have become quite a shot with a lighter-recoiling rifle. 
Grayrock
Member
And where might "HERE" be?
I vote for the poor marksmanship model. To make up for shot placement today's hunters feel they can just go with a bigger boom. If they make a bad shot, they are hoping the magnum-go-fast-big-a$$ piece-o-lead will cause major hydrodynamic shock and drop the animal anyway. Besides- they can impress their audience when they declare their weapon of choice is the new XYZ caliber magnum that costs $10 a shot! The last deer I shot was a headshot with a .223 offhand. Pop, drop & flop. Meat in the freezer.
Subby
Member
I don't mind using a relatively heavy rifle. Shot angles can be less of an issue if you're using a heavy rifle. The hunter densities here(PA, WV) are rather high, so it's a pretty good idea to anchor your buck where he stands, rather than letting him bleed out 200 yards away. For instance, during the 1999-2000 hunting season here in PA 991,327 hunting licsenses were sold(http://64.233.187.104/u/pgc?q=cache...9.pdf+"hunting+licenses+sold"&hl=en&ie=UTF-8). Pennsylvania is 46,058 sq. miles(http://www.enchantedlearning.com/usa/states/area.shtml). Assuming 3 outta 4 licensed hunters go out opening day, your hunter density is 16 and change per square mile over the entire state(downtown Philly/Pitts/etc). Granted a lot of those guys are snoozing away in camp or sipping coffee in the parking lot, but potentially that buck you shot is running past a few guys while giving his last hurrah. Besides it seems like most guys take pride in their rifles, a little easier if you have a Chevelle than a Chevette. That being said, yes, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the milder rounds. But there's also nothing wrong with a magnum round, if you can properly handle it.
Sub
Taking a .25-06 out next Monday
.300 WinMag riding the pine until .25-06 tears his ACL
Sub
Taking a .25-06 out next Monday
.300 WinMag riding the pine until .25-06 tears his ACL
1911 guy
Member
OldNamVet for President!
I've said the same thing on several threads. If folks want to get a special rifle in a certain caliber for that hunt of a lifetime, more power to them and I hope they enjoy the rifle and memories for many years. What gets my goat is the "that ain't big enough" crowd. All of the sudden an "-06 is the minimum for elk? Since when? .243 is on the light side for deer? Somebody tell the hillbillies I hunt with. I think the problem is twofold. First, the gun magazines and manufacturers have to sell new guns and add space, secondly, hunting has been replaced with shooting. If we can get within 40 yards of a deer with a bow, why is it impossible with a shotgun or rifle? I'm all for utilizing the extended range of a firearm, but I don't need a ballistic freight train, I need to get a little closer and make an ethical shot.
I've said the same thing on several threads. If folks want to get a special rifle in a certain caliber for that hunt of a lifetime, more power to them and I hope they enjoy the rifle and memories for many years. What gets my goat is the "that ain't big enough" crowd. All of the sudden an "-06 is the minimum for elk? Since when? .243 is on the light side for deer? Somebody tell the hillbillies I hunt with. I think the problem is twofold. First, the gun magazines and manufacturers have to sell new guns and add space, secondly, hunting has been replaced with shooting. If we can get within 40 yards of a deer with a bow, why is it impossible with a shotgun or rifle? I'm all for utilizing the extended range of a firearm, but I don't need a ballistic freight train, I need to get a little closer and make an ethical shot.
ID_shooting
Member
I live in the "big open space out-west" area
(350 is the farthest I have ever had to take ). Every one here seems to think that 300 WM is the lightest you need to go. :banghead: I played the game for a while, had a nice Rem 700 done up. I hated that rifle, too much recoil to shoot it too often as I added a muzzle break, then it was too darn LOUD to want to shoot at all, even with muffs. Forget that stuff I say.
I went back to having just my old trusty and reliable big game rifles that I have had for years, mod 94 30-30 and mod 70 30-06. Yup, enough gun for me, never lost a critter with iether of them and I can shoot iether all day long at the range and not get jumpy nor spend a fortune in reloading supplies.
I decied to spend money on nice optics, good furniture and fitting my rifles to me rather than some super, duper, wonder cartridge.
(350 is the farthest I have ever had to take
). Every one here seems to think that 300 WM is the lightest you need to go. :banghead: I played the game for a while, had a nice Rem 700 done up. I hated that rifle, too much recoil to shoot it too often as I added a muzzle break, then it was too darn LOUD to want to shoot at all, even with muffs. Forget that stuff I say.I went back to having just my old trusty and reliable big game rifles that I have had for years, mod 94 30-30 and mod 70 30-06. Yup, enough gun for me, never lost a critter with iether of them and I can shoot iether all day long at the range and not get jumpy nor spend a fortune in reloading supplies.
I decied to spend money on nice optics, good furniture and fitting my rifles to me rather than some super, duper, wonder cartridge.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Another factor in the Ma Bell guns is the general lack of stalking skills on the part of city folks. Walking on a sidewalk isn't the same as stalking in the boonies. They buy slick-whistle clothing from Cabela's and hard-soled waffle-stomper boots and then march like GIs on parade. You can hear them from a mile away. If I can hear'em, Bambi darned sure can. So, if they even see an animal, it's way out there in magnum country...
Art
Art
I just noticed my location isn't in my profile. I live in central Wyoming. I hunt deer, elk, and antelope within a 30 mile radius of my house.
I am not saying anyone needs a magnum rifle. I grew up using a .257 Roberts. When I was hunting elk primarily on the National Forest, a 30-06 with a 3x-9x scope set on the low end was plenty. Now that I am hunting elk and deer out in the tall grass and sage brush of the Owl Creek Mountains, I use a .30-.338 with a Night Force scope, I carry a Leica rangefinder, and I pack a pocket PC loaded with Exbal. There is nothing wrong with being geared up to shoot the toughest animal I hunt at the longest distance I can ethically take the critter. If I can only close the distance to a range that is beyond my rifle's point blank range, I want to be able to kill the animal with one shot, without guess work, and have enough energy to have decent terminal ballistics. Guys who can reliably, ethically, and humanly kill an animal at distance have a much better chance of going home with that trophy of a life time.
Not that is matters, but I think a .300 Win Mag is as heavy as anyone needs to go, but I won't bash guys who want to go bigger, nor will I be crtical of people who want to close the distance with just enough gun.
On the other side of the coin, I have killed a dozen elk with a bow, the longest shot was 20 yards and change. I have not replaced "hunting" with "shooting". One of the tools I have in my "hunting" tool box is the ability to shoot at distance. That is a good tool to have, but it takes more work than a lot of folks are willing to put forth.
griz
Member
They have done a pretty good job of getting people to believe that you need something with the name magnum (no matter the length) to punch holes in critters. Now that everybody owns one, have you noticed the appearance of the reduced recoil rounds so you can use your shoulder cruncher to hunt with?
belton-deer-hunter
member
it is a marketing plan peta says smaller calibers lead to slower deaths and we are so afraid of losing our hunting rights that we follow them into the future when we will be using .50 bmg to drop rabbits cause they dont feel the bullet hit and i think that it is importtant that we remember that humans are the domint race and god made it that way he wanted us to eat and survive and to do this animals must die from time to tiem i ma not saying that we need to go out with .22's chasing deer but a bullet from a trained hunter or anyperson who practices i was t9od by a guy the other day that he hunted in alabama a long time back and they told him that a 30-30 was to small i think that the government needs to learn hunters jsut like peta have rights
Ankeny, I agree totally. I hunt Central/Northwest Wyoming. It's already been mentioned- hunting time available and styles have changed. More common to hear of 2-3 day hunts, not even necessarily for trophey. Americans work more hours on the job than most any industrialized country, so less free time. But also, the party hunts, where game is pushed by several hunters to other hunters is actually illegal in some states. So closer shots at game isn't as common. In the West where I hunt, there also is quickly becoming a loss of habitat as luxury homes and pricey ranches are intruding into the "wild" country. If one opportunity to get a deer or elk is all you're gonna get, training for longer distances and getting a flatter shooting boomer may become a necessity. Personally, never thought I'd be thinking in those terms, but I am. I use now a 7mag and .300RUM for deer and elk respectively.
MNgoldenbear
Member
Ankeny said:
Therein lies the key, Ankeny. You ARE willing to do the work it takes to be GOOD at long range shooting. I think the criticisms in this thread have pretty much been leveled at those who simply believe that the bigger cartridge gives them that ability automatically, simply by the fact that they are shooting the newest 'wondermag'. These are people who will take a 500-yard shot, but would be lucky to hit the 'wider, vertically-oriented enclosure component of a large, agricultural outbuilding'
at that range 1 out of 10 shots. We know that it is still the rifleman, not the cartridge, that executes the shot. If the bullet is poorly placed (not due to some freak circumstance), it was the rifleman's fault. If the shot was taken out of the effective killing range of the cartridge, it was the rifleman's fault. If the shot is well-placed, within effective range for the cartridge, leading to a quick, humane kill, the credit goes to the rifleman. As with any sport or profession, get good, proper tools and learn how and when to use each one with as much skill as can be developed, and things will usually go pretty well. I have no problem with anyone who takes long-range shots, given that they have the correct equipment and have trained themselves to make those shots under field conditions. I have a problem with those unwilling to make the effort to improve their skills (shooting, ranging, stalking, etc.) but feel 'entitled' to take a shot at an animal that they clearly can have no expectation of making cleanly. This said, I'm sure I have put rounds downrange on game that were out on/beyond the margins of my effective range with a particular arm. I have given in to the excitement of trying to take an animal and lost discipline. I'm just saying that we should all try our best to hunt ethically, and be realistic in our assessment of our abilities.MNgoldenbear
Member
** double post
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
I think bullet choice and bullet placement is more critical than caliber. But there is another factor that some of you guys are ignoring: if I limit myself to this caliber or that caliber-think of all the rifles I wouldn't own. My rifles rund the gamut from .223 to .458 WinMag.
I usually hunt deer with a .300 WinMag. Out of two 300 yard shots I've had; I had two deer dead right there. On the other hand, I wounded a deer with the rifle from 20 yards, trailed him for half a mile and lost him. He saw me just before the trigger broke and moved just enough to turn the wound into one he could run with. It was definitely a lethal wound. Pieces of leg bone were on the ground. Lost the blood trail in the swamp.
One of the calibers mentioned as an old reliable, .35 Remington, is only available in factory loads in this area that I have little faith in. I've shot a doe broadside through the lungs. She fell down and I watched her for fifteen minutes. The Marlin jammed on the reload to the point that it needed tools to release it. I climbed down the tree. 20 yards from the doe; she jumps up and runs off through the beaver swamp. The shot knocked hair off her offside the size of a dinner plate. After four hours of searching through the beaver swamp in 16 degree weather, I decided to use a different gun.
Bottom line though, I hunt with what I have and what I enjoy. You hunt with what you have and what you enjoy. We'll both be happy. I wouldn't hunt grizzly with a .30-'06. Personal preference. Murphy's Law. The universe is out to get me. There's folk that have killed them with archery tackle. More power to them.
I usually hunt deer with a .300 WinMag. Out of two 300 yard shots I've had; I had two deer dead right there. On the other hand, I wounded a deer with the rifle from 20 yards, trailed him for half a mile and lost him. He saw me just before the trigger broke and moved just enough to turn the wound into one he could run with. It was definitely a lethal wound. Pieces of leg bone were on the ground. Lost the blood trail in the swamp.
One of the calibers mentioned as an old reliable, .35 Remington, is only available in factory loads in this area that I have little faith in. I've shot a doe broadside through the lungs. She fell down and I watched her for fifteen minutes. The Marlin jammed on the reload to the point that it needed tools to release it. I climbed down the tree. 20 yards from the doe; she jumps up and runs off through the beaver swamp. The shot knocked hair off her offside the size of a dinner plate. After four hours of searching through the beaver swamp in 16 degree weather, I decided to use a different gun.
Bottom line though, I hunt with what I have and what I enjoy. You hunt with what you have and what you enjoy. We'll both be happy. I wouldn't hunt grizzly with a .30-'06. Personal preference. Murphy's Law. The universe is out to get me. There's folk that have killed them with archery tackle. More power to them.
This is the deer I shot on opening day this year. The gun used is a Tikka T3 308 Varmint model. Puny little 308. The range was a lasered 594 yards. One shot. Entered behind the shoulder, exited opposite shoulder.
The load is a slow one 44 grains 748 with a 165 graing hollowpoint boattail Sierra Gameking. Trundles along at a mere 2600 from my chronograph.
2004's deer was 518 yards with a Savage 308. One shot centered right behind the shoulder. DRT (dead right there)
2003 was 398 yards (head shot) I had my partner back me on this with his dialed in 300Win due to the difficult shot. It was not needed. The bullet went exactly where I aimed, right below his ear.
2002 deer lasered 400 even. I cheated with a 300 win though. 1 shot DRT
2001. deer lasered 711. My longest shot. 1 shot DRT. 7mm mag
Point is with year round practice and intimate knowledge of your equipment, just about any decent caliber will work. It is the rifleman that matters most.
Next year I plan on going the opposite way and just use handguns.
- Status
