Is it impossible to make it as a gunsmith?

[TMiller556]

Alright, so I've been on this forum a lot in the past and have asked similar questions. I always valued the amazing responses that I've received by you all. After my last visit here, I pretty much set my sights on becoming a mechanical engineer because I figured if I couldn't get a position in the firearm industry, I'd still be able to get one elsewhere. However, I've come to terms with the fact that I'm not a mathematical genius. I'm sure I can get by if I really really put in the work to brush up on my math, but I don't want to pursue a career that I may potentially hate or be a failure at. So I come back to you guys with this question: How hard is it to make it as a gunsmith?

I'm from NYC but I've always had a passion for firearms. A very profound passion. Reading up on ballistics, the internal mechanisms, gunsmithing, etc. I've done whatever gunsmithing projects I could here in NYC that are still considered legal. I never grew up around guns nor do I have much hands on experience with them. I've gone up to New Hampshire to do my fair share of shooting. What really concerns me is that I don't have any contacts in the firearm business... which would probably lessen my chances of being a full-time employed gunsmith at a shop. I've heard time and time again that times are extremely hard for gunsmiths given how expensive it is for equipment and to open up shop. Same goes for those who open up ranges or even dealers. I'd imagine the fact that companies offer their own repair services for their products contribute to the decline as well.. Money isn't everything to me, but if it's not feasible to make a living on it, it's best left as a hobby or a part time job.

I've had such an unwavering desire to work with firearms.. which is what always brings me back to this forum to ask you all for your opinions. So if your son had said that he wants to pursue a career as a gunsmith, what would you say? Please don't sugar coat it either. I want to know the good, bad, and ugly of the trade.

In the case that I did follow through with all of this, I'd enroll in a gunsmithing program at one of the few schools that offer it.

I will probably end up taking up a trade in the event that I don't go the gunsmithing route. Although I'm holding a 4.0 GPA in college, I don't think it's for me. Nothing that I can major in interests me enough to invest so much money and energy into.

I would greatly appreciate any advice that you all could give me.

Thanks in advance.

-Tom

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

As a retired operating Engineer, Marine and steam plant, I'd highly recommend you continue your path to becoming a mechanical engineer and then pursue the dream of becoming a gunsmith as a hobby/side job.
Also you might want to look into the challenge of building quality muzzleloaders as part of that path.

 

[hso]

You should contact member Owen. He works in the firearms industry as an engineer for government, contractor and commercial entities. He can tell you his professional experience.


OTOH, if you have a passion to be a gunsmith then you should consider becoming a machinist and then going to gunsmithing school.

 

[TMiller556]

As a retired operating Engineer, Marine and steam plant, I'd highly recommend you continue your path to becoming a mechanical engineer and then pursue the dream of becoming a gunsmith as a hobby/side job.
Also you might want to look into the challenge of building quality muzzleloaders as part of that path.

The only bit that I'm skeptical about when it comes to studying mechanical engineering is that my math skills are not very strong. Long story short, I lost both of my parents while I was in high school and had no stable place to live for a short amount of time. I missed school and although I'm back on track now and am a very good student, there are holes in my math education. I'm a bit far behind. Math isn't my strong suit regardless. Maybe I'm making excuses.. but I don't know

 

[TMiller556]

You should contact member Owen. He works in the firearms industry as an engineer for government, contractor and commercial entities. He can tell you his professional experience.


OTOH, if you have a passion to be a gunsmith then you should consider becoming a machinist and then going to gunsmithing school.

Thanks for the reply. And will do.

I was actually considering machining or CNC machining operation.

 

[dh1633pm]

I am not sure that Math is anyone's best subject. I work in a highly technical IT field and math is needed there as well. You can get better at it.

 

[oneounceload]

I guess it would depend on what type of gunsmithing you dream of doing? Just fixing your basic Glocks, installing recoil pads and stuff? Get your degree and do it as a side hobby. Wanting to do repairs on custom guns, possibly start building them? Different story.

Want to work on expensive shotguns? Griffin and Howe is just across the river in NJ. Want to do exquisite restorations and creations? Doug Turnbull is upstate NY.

Figure out what aspect you want to do, find out who the industry leaders are and contact them and talk to them about what skills and education they would require from a new apprentice. Online schooling does not replace on campus instruction which does not replace a good hands on apprenticeship.

 

[TMiller556]

I guess it would depend on what type of gunsmithing you dream of doing? Just fixing your basic Glocks, installing recoil pads and stuff? Get your degree and do it as a side hobby. Wanting to do repairs on custom guns, possibly start building them? Different story.

Want to work on expensive shotguns? Griffin and Howe is just across the river in NJ. Want to do exquisite restorations and creations? Doug Turnbull is upstate NY.

Figure out what aspect you want to do, find out who the industry leaders are and contact them and talk to them about what skills and education they would require from a new apprentice. Online schooling does not replace on campus instruction which does not replace a good hands on apprenticeship.

I would want to do the latter.

I want to delve into the most technical aspects of firearms and master them all. I know that I certainly have the drive and dedication for it, but the circumstances are what I'm concerned about.

 

[200Apples]

.

I was actually considering machining or CNC machining operation.

There should be no "or". If you want to smith either as a hobby or a profession, I'd first learn to use an engine lathe and a mill in the old-fashioned way... then learn the operation of CNC equipment.

Good luck in your career endeavors! May your passion for the art light your path.

 

[grogetr]

Don't use weak math skills as an excuse to stop school. I have a friend who has been a structural engineer for 15 years and 2 of his favorite sayings are he's not good with numbers and D stands for diploma. He was even able to get his PE after awhile. School will be much harder than the actual job.
I would do the gun smith learning later and if it turns into something you can always go that route later but you will always have the engineer thing to fall back on.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I've known several gunsmiths and one common factor they seem to share is a background as a machinist. A huge plus is a talent as a welder.

The gunsmiths I've seen fail also have a common factor. They didn't have the knowledge and training to run a business.

The really successful ones I know have the ability to design and produce, or have produced, aftermarket parts...of course, that does require some engineering skills

 

[yugorpk]

Here is the question I always ask people considering a career change. How much money do you want to make? That is a valid question and one that you should ask yourself and answer honestly. Its OK to have financial goals but people get into careers with no idea how much those careers pay. Then they can't make a living and get frustrated and unhappy. Money can't buy happiness but it can buy food and housing and kids tuition. Point is OK to have a hobby but you don't have to make it your lifes work especially in a saturated field like gunsmithing.

Theres at least two ways to look at it.

1. "If you do something you love you won't work a day in your life"

2. "Turning your hobby into a business ruins your hobby and turns it into work"

Think about which one would apply to you.

 

[Sunray]

Weak math skills are why Texas Instruments invented the calculator. The only place you'd have to remember all those formulas and equations is in school. Not much math or arithmetic involved with fixing firearms anyway, but any formulas you'll ever need are published on-line and in print. Buy a copy of Machinery's Handbook. Cheap, it ain't though
Gunsmithing is extremely difficult to break into. Entry level jobs(that pay minimum wage with no benefits or job security) are very few and far between. There are no or very few apprenticeships either.
"...Nothing that I can major in interests me enough to..." Sounds like a job for the Army. Assuming you're reasonably fit. Nowhere else gives you 30 days annual vacation from the first year and is willing to train you to do pretty much anything. The 4.0 college lever GPA might make you an officer too.

 

[cat_IT_guy]

Some great advice so far. Echoing others, dont let difficulty with math discourage you. You can learn it.

I'll throw out another option, as it seems that working for someone else as a gunsmith is a pretty tough gig. How about going to school for business (yep, more numbers, sorry ), and doing a minor in something closer to your interest? It would be extremely useful if you have any interest in being your own boss and it would afford you a multitude of opportunities both near and far from the gun industry in the event that gunsmithing itself doesnt work out for you.

Whatever you decide, good luck!

 

[4v50 Gary]

One thing they really don't teach in gunsmithing school is entreprenuerialism. You don't walk out as a businessman but you're qualified to work on firearms. It is possible to make it as a gunsmith, but you must know what to specialize in to make your money. Some jobs aren't worth it. If you want to be a stocking dealer, you have to balance working capital against inventory. Some stuff you don't make money on but you draw the customers in and hopefully they buy other things (or use your services).

 

[Moparnut]

I work in the industry myself. I am lower on the food chain than an engineer; however, I can tell you my company is ALWAYS looking for good engineers. These guys/gals make good money and can advance if motivated. Stay the course. Math is not my strong suit either but, I believe you are younger than I and it will be much easier for you to grasp, understand and retain right now. If I would have went to college, knowing what I know now, I would have become an engineer in a heartbeat. Take an internship or apprenticeship at a tool and die place. That will serve you well, it will also give you a backup just in case finding a job right out of school is tough.

 

[Havok7416]

It's not as difficult as it may seem to learn math or pick up new skills. I helped pioneer a new kind of math class 9th-11th grades - the program was cancelled the fourth year after it was found that the students weren't keeping up like they should.

Today I work in a complex mechanical field (and I have no mechanical background) where we crunch numbers all day.

Chase your dreams - you just may surprise yourself.

 

[mgmorden]

It seems pretty hard to be a gunsmith starting out IMHO. Now, there are a lot of big name smiths out there like Bob Londrigan, Don Williams, Matt Cheely, Gary Gans, Shay Akai, etc, who seem to always have plenty of work, but unless you're a well known "name brand", most people would rather go with what they know - even if that means being on a waitlist for a while.

IMHO, get a more stable primary job, and pickup/dabble in gunsmithing on the side. If your work is good, people will talk, and more customers will come. Eventually you may be able to pick that up as your primary profession, but personally I wouldn't recommend trying to start out with that initially.

 

[DPris]

Ability as a machinist is critical.
And understand that a CNC operator is NOT a gunsmith. It is a repetitive monitoring of programmed fabricating machines.
Denis

 

[taliv]

What you really need to do is figure out whether you want to work for a bigger company that mass produces firearms or if you want to hang out your own shingle.

If the former then specialize your skills and get really really good at doing one thing that's in demand.
If the latter then you need a very broad set of skills because you'll have to do everything yourself and emphasize the business part. Start by doing some business cases. Go shopping and see how things are priced. Then think about what it would cost to produce it. Now figure out how many you would have to sell to make a living.
Think about the differences in margin on things like scope rings vs custom barrels or rifles or pistol smithing.

And you'll definite need to get involved in the shooting community as that's where your sales and opportunities will come from. And knowing how to use the product will make a huge difference in the quality of your work.

 

[Spats McGee]

Do not forget to figure in the various peripheral costs:

• taxes;
• insurance;
• rent;
• telephone/internet;
• professional services (lawyer, accountant, etc.);
• advertising.

On that last note, I'll give you one tip that I learned when I had my own practice: business cards are the cheapest and some of the best advertising I ever used. I bought them 1000 at a time and handed them out like candy. Never went anywhere without them. If I mailed someone a letter, my card went in it. If I went out to eat, I left a card on the table. And so on.

 

[slicksleeve]

A little story for you. Right out of high school, I began working in a machine shop. Running the mechanical machines was more interesting to me than the CNC. Reason being, the foreman would set up the machine for me, then I was a part swapping, button pushing, micrometer reading monkey, or so it felt. Running 400 parts getting the same hole or slot cut was boring. I made almost zero dollars an hour, so after a year, I started production welding for seven years before finding a totally unrelated career that after nine years at, I plan to retire from when I hit age 51. I am not a gunsmith, but would like to be, and my background in the machine shop allows me to know how to drill and tap things, (think Mauser receiver) shorten barrels and recrown them and so forth. I also still have a box full of Starret tools that use often when working on guns. None of which will ever make me a dime, but I love it.
All that said, like others have pointed out, I think learning the machinist trade would be a great foundation for the gunsmith trade. If I had stayed in the machine shop, there's no telling what I would be able to do. Some day I will have my own lathe and milling machine, and then, its on as far as hobby gunsmithing goes.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I don't really know anything about how the industry operates, but I just want to throw in that one of the gun stores near me also offers gunsmithing. I don't know if the owner is doing it or he hired someone, but if you don't want to go out totally on your own you could pitch some gun stores into using you... it might be that none of them want to go to the expense of hiring a full-time employee but if they get a cut of the price charged to the customer they make money, and if you could be contracted to several different ones you might be able to at least make enough to get by while doing your passion. But IAC you need to first get really good at it (not least because their reputation is also on the line), if there is any way at all to be an apprentice to somebody good that would be ideal, even if it has to be part-time for free while you do something else to make money.

 

[buck460XVR]

I've been privileged to know some very fine gunsmiths over the years. One thing they had in common other than a love of firearms and being perfectionists, is that being a gunsmith was not their only occupation. Most ran small gun/sport shops as well and a few worked other mainstream jobs. Some picked it up after they retired. Besides having good mechanical skills, they also were good businessmen. For every Doug Turnbull out there, there's 1000 small town gunsmiths making the gun world a better place.

 

[TwoFirstNames]

I also suggest you not drop engineering just due to concerns over math. I did, and I have regretted ever since. In our society, engineers are extremely valued (perhaps overvalued, but that is a different topic). In the fields that I deal with, being able to say you are an engineer makes a huge difference.
Now, if you are looking around at your classmates and the potential jobs after college and they just aren't you, then you should find something else to do.
As for gunsmithing as a career, I just refer you to what everyone else has said, especially the business skills part. People always forget that you need business skills to run a business, your love/skill/enthusiasm will just get you a giant mound of debt without business skills to go with it.
Also, remember that you can get someone else to supply the business skills if necessary.