Is it OK to load 38 Spcl cases to .357 Mag ballistics?

[pinkymingeo]

Didn't hurt the gun, a 4" 66-1. Made a really big bang, though. I knew something was very wrong as soon as I pulled the trigger. I've thought in the past about trimming .357 brass to 38spl length, just to have a stronger case. The brass is so much thicker, though, that pressures would just be guess work. Don't need that much of a hobby right now.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Many years ago when components were harder to come by- (After 1968 GCA, you couldn't ship or recieve powder or primers unless you had an FFL, -this ended in 1986 with the signing of the McClure-Volkmer bill by Pres. Reagan)- there was a lot of discussion and advice given out regarding loading "Express" or "Magnum" loads in .38spl brass. Most of it was at a much less "intense" level of debate than some of the foregoing discussions...................

As regards the .38 brass strength, it is little different than the .357 brass. The significant issue is again gun strength. The case is nothing but a gasket and if the gun is strong enough, the .38 cases will contain any reasonable pressures.

IF you decide to load .357 loads in .38 cases, do as Skeeter Skelton, Bill Jordan, Elmer Keith, and many others have recommended......... Load to .357mag OAL, and EFFECTIVELY label and mark the ammo as such.



However, today, .357 brass is much easier to come by, and only slightly if any more expensive than .38spl brass. Also, most of the sperical powders require heavy crimps and magnum primers and the lack of secondary crimp grooves precludes such loading. However, a number of years ago the Winchester 158gr JHP's had "two" cannulures which would have allowed long seating and heavy crimping. I haven't seen any in about 20yrs however, so I can't speak to whether such is still so.

I prefer to load .38 ammo in .38cases and .357mag in Magnum brass. This is all everyone was really saying.
It's just better "SAFE" than "Sorry!".

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Before the .357 there was the .38/44: .38 Special ammo
loaded hot for use in .38 revolvers built on .44 frames.

To prevent use of .357 in a .38 revolver the case was
lengthened by about 1/10 of an inch.

Is it OK to load 38 Spcl cases to .357 Mag ballistics?

Due to the possibility of my heirs firing my reloads in
either my .38 revolver or my .357 revolver, I keep my
.38 reloads at .38 levels, and reload .357 level in .357
cases only.

 

[jfh]

here's another reason not to do that:

You may make a charging error. That is you may overcharge the 38SPL case with a bad .357 recipe. I did this--and I was really working with 38SPL+P recipes.

In my situation it was not a 'simple' double-charge, it was beyond that: I put about 17-18gr of AA#7 in a Starline 38SPL case (+P, and actually .357-rated, I believe) beneath a 140 gr LRN-P (plated) bullet, and I touched off a cylinderful in my S&W 640. I shot five rounds.

You can read the details here: http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=3560491&postcount=15. Read the subsequent postings to get the full picture. You can also view the cartridge results here: http://www.pbase.com/jfh1945/image/82483587 Someone else on another forum's thread I posted noted that the pressure was at least 57,000 plus.

The 640 is a 357 and arguably a very strong J-frame. and it still shoots--but it was affected:

1. The cylinder latch now operates with difficulty.

2. Although it still shoots safely--and to the same POA, etc., and the operation is fine--it also appears I bulged the chambers: Having since shot it some, with low-medium pressure 38+P loads, I have sticky extraction.

My gunsmith will be checking it over tomorrow.

So, yes, hypothetically, you could do this--but to do so is a dangerous practice and contravenes the pragmatic conventions the shooting community has in place for safe cartridge loading.

Jim H.

 

[peterotte]

smithbm

Yes you can - BUT, YOU MUST KEEP TO 357 MAGNUM OVERALL LENGTH. Some cast bullets have two crimp grooves for that purpose. Otherwise, crimp behind the first lube groove. Do keep your pressures lower than max anyway. I always loaded 357 rounds with 'large' or 'magnum' pistol powder that could not produce max loads. These were used as practice loads and proved very accurate in a Rossi carbine. (Pressures were in fact, not much higher than 38 Special loads anyway - but velocities were, due to higher gained case volume and powder charges).

Hope this helps.

Peter

 

[CZ57]

I haven't measured the web. I have loaded 9mm bullets in trimmed .357 magnum cases because the wall thickness of a .38 Special +P case ( who most claim is identical except for caselength and headstamp ) is thinner and I can tell you for certain that there is a difference in wall thickness based on actual experience, not hyperbole. I usually don't offer an opionion on brass manufacturers cutting cost by using a shorter .357 magnum case and replacing the headstamp with .38 Special +P. May be identical, maybe not.

One thing that I can tell you, and some of the older hands should be able to tell you also, is that if a .357 magnum will accept a .38 SUPER round (casehead .380"), it can safely be fired in a .357 magnum revolver. This is always left out when discussing this topic. The max pressure rating of the .38 SUPER is 36,500 PSI, and the case is substantially shorter than the .38 Special's. Any questions?

 

[Johnny Guest]

Have we pretty well worn out this topic?

smithbm, the question has been adequately answered.

The bottom lline is this: Your revolver, your components, your physical well-being. You may do whatever you decide to do. You can keep switching the details around, changing the details of your question, and no one will tell you it is okay to put a load specified for .357 magmum into .38 Special cases.

It has been pointed out that .357 brass may be easily obtained. If, in spite of all the replies you've received, you still want to do the ".357 loads in .38 Spl cases" thing, allow me to say it once more:

NO. IT IS NOT OKAY. IT IS DANGEROUS.

Thread closed.

Johnny Guest
TFL Staff
Moderator,
Handloading and Reloading Fourm