Is it ok to shoot 38 special +P ammo in S&W model 36?
- Thread starter bamacisa
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yesit'sloaded
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I've put about 30 rounds of +p through mine and I carry +p. Every other thing I shoot through it is normal pressure. I was told by my gunsmith that a short barrel doesn't allow the pressure to build up and I was just blowing more fire out the barrel(I have a 2 inch). I don't shoot +p in it regularly, but switch out my carry ammo every semester or so. ( I am in not way advocating the use of +p ammo in a gun not designated for it, just relaying a personal experience)
Baron357
Member
In general unless it says +P on the gun it is not a good idea. If you call S&W and give them the serial number they will tell you if it is safe. I would use regular .38 special until you know, Speer makes some good gold dot in standard .38 spl.
If it's not safe for +P, don't try shooting higher powered standard pressure in it, either. You're not gaining something for nothing. The problem with +P ammo in certain guns isn't that 10% extra pressure (and many +P .38s are loaded to under standard pressure anyway), it's the extra recoil. It batters and stretches the frame, etc. More power means more recoil, regardless of the advertized chamber pressure.
Neo-Luddite
Member
If it is an aluminum frame (airweight) don't do it--they WILL stretch. My wife's steel ladysmith w/ 3" barrel is a little newer than your 36 (it's a 36 with a light trigger job basically--smooth BTW). The manual says +p is OK, but not a steady diet all day every day.
Here and there, to burn off old carry ammo or practice--I would. I buy her Federal Hydra shocks +p for defense. The 36 w/ 3" barrel is a really handy gun.
Here and there, to burn off old carry ammo or practice--I would. I buy her Federal Hydra shocks +p for defense. The 36 w/ 3" barrel is a really handy gun.
bannockburn
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I would say you've been given some very good advice by the previous posters. I pretty much practice with 148 gr. wadcutters, then run about half a box of the premium SD loads through it to see where they print. With an older gun like yours, I would definitely limit the amount of Plus P that you would run through it, just to avoid the accelerated wear and tear that kind of ammo does to a gun.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
S&W never said +P was O.K. in the older J & K frame guns.
But they never said not to do it either.
All Model 36's are safe with +P, but they will shoot loose much quicker then with standard pressure ammo.
My advice would be:
Practice with any standard .38 Special ammo you care to use.
Carry +P for SD use if you so desire.
But as has already been pointed out, you are not going to gain much except more noise, flash, recoil, and accelrated wear with +P in a 2" J-frame.
rcmodel
But they never said not to do it either.
All Model 36's are safe with +P, but they will shoot loose much quicker then with standard pressure ammo.
My advice would be:
Practice with any standard .38 Special ammo you care to use.
Carry +P for SD use if you so desire.
But as has already been pointed out, you are not going to gain much except more noise, flash, recoil, and accelrated wear with +P in a 2" J-frame.
rcmodel
rcmodel
Gave you very good advice. S&W will never give you the ok to shoot +P ammo on a older S&W due to legal issues. It's been done for years and for the most part with very little problems. I had a S&W M12 airweight that the frame had split when they had screwed in the barrel. The first thing they said when I placed a call about it was that would need to check and see if it appeared the crack had been caused by +P. Since it was over 30 years old and new in the box they did replace this free of charge. +1 for S&W customer service!
Gave you very good advice. S&W will never give you the ok to shoot +P ammo on a older S&W due to legal issues. It's been done for years and for the most part with very little problems. I had a S&W M12 airweight that the frame had split when they had screwed in the barrel. The first thing they said when I placed a call about it was that would need to check and see if it appeared the crack had been caused by +P. Since it was over 30 years old and new in the box they did replace this free of charge. +1 for S&W customer service!
Jim Watson
Member
I have fired enough +P in my M38 to know how it feels, and carry it so. I practice with standard speed.
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
S&W model 36's are rated for +P; although a steady diet of 'em wouldn't be
recommended~!
recommended~!
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
They newer ones are now, but they weren't for the first 40 some years they were made.
There was not even such a thing as +P ammo until 30+ years after they started making Chiefs Specials.
rcmodel
skeeter1
Member
Don't take anyone's word for it here or on any other forum. Send an email to [email protected] with whatever information you have (serial number, date, etc) and ask them. That's what I did with my 20+ year old M60, and they told me it was fine to use +P. They got back to me in just a couple of days. It's cheap peace of mind.
'Tain't necessary to shoot that hot stuff in a snubbie. The original 158 grain LSWC-HP put many a BG in the dirt real fast.
The original poster had a M36 with the 3" barrel so the +P loads MIGHT have a little time to generate more speed out of the barrel, but for us snubbie users, it is a moot point.
Plus, I want to have a faster, more accurate follow up time between each shot I make if I'm ever having to defend myself with it. Speed, accuracy and bullet placement win gunfights, not flames and guns that buck up high in the air each time you shoot 'em.
Nawwww, make mine standard speed stuff and with the afore-mentioned bullet for self defense, and 148 grain wadcutters for practice. It has worked pretty darn well for the past century or so . . . and will continue to do so long after we're all gone.
The original poster had a M36 with the 3" barrel so the +P loads MIGHT have a little time to generate more speed out of the barrel, but for us snubbie users, it is a moot point.
Plus, I want to have a faster, more accurate follow up time between each shot I make if I'm ever having to defend myself with it. Speed, accuracy and bullet placement win gunfights, not flames and guns that buck up high in the air each time you shoot 'em.
Nawwww, make mine standard speed stuff and with the afore-mentioned bullet for self defense, and 148 grain wadcutters for practice. It has worked pretty darn well for the past century or so . . . and will continue to do so long after we're all gone.
Nicolai
Member
+1 for skeeter1's advice. I e-mailed Smith and Wesson Support with the .38+P question on a M60-4 (3" barrel); their response (just over 24 hours later) was an okay to use .38+P. Doesn't mean the M60 will get a steady diet of the stuff.
Shawnee
member
+1 with Skeeter and also +1 with S&WFan.
I am looking at a Smith and Wesson Revolver manual revised 6/93 which lists a small frame ammunition chart which approves +P ammo only in the Model 60-4 with full underlug, the 60-7 and 60-8, the Model 640 (.38 version), and the Model 649-2. The models 36, 37, 38, 42, 442, 49, and model 60 dashes 1-4 were not factory-approved for +P. Clearly, a couple of years later when Smith and Wesson "magnumized" and slightly enlarged the J-frame, they approved +P for all small framed revolvers, but the above was their recommendations for older-styled J-frame revolvers. I ain't saying the guns won't take it, just that S&W wasn't approving of it.
mnw42
Member
Buffalo Bore makes some excellent standard pressure loads for the .38 spcl. I use them in my Cobra and have been very happy with them.
Cosmoline
Member
There is no problem. I've been shooting +p LSWCHP's out of all-steel vintage J frames for years. As with any firearm the more powerful the round the sooner the revoler will start to loosen up, but there's no safety issue. These wheelguns are in many respects stronger than the ones made now.
I would not put +p+ .38's in one, however. Nor would I put +p's in older ALLOY frame snubs.
As I understand it, there was no such thing as +p .38 back then. Standard .38 Special ran hot. It was only when SAAMI grew concerned about increasingly old early-20th century .38's that they decreased the max pressure on standard .38 ammo and created a new "+p" category. It's the difference between 17,000 psi and 18,500 psi. We're not talking about magnum force here.
Common sense should play a roll here. I would not and have not hesitated using +p in a second or third generation all-steel Colt D frame PPS or DS from post-war through the 70's. But I very much doubt I would stick them in a beaten up first generation from the 1920's. Nor would I shoot them out of an Agent or any alloy frame unless that frame is specifically rated for +p.
The original LSWCHP is rated as "+p" That's what I was talking about with SAAMI changing the standard pressure for the .38 Special. Back in the old days the only "hot" special was the .38-44 stuff that was up at .357 levels. Standard rounds included what we call "+p" now, including the LSWCHP FBI round.
I would not put +p+ .38's in one, however. Nor would I put +p's in older ALLOY frame snubs.
As I understand it, there was no such thing as +p .38 back then. Standard .38 Special ran hot. It was only when SAAMI grew concerned about increasingly old early-20th century .38's that they decreased the max pressure on standard .38 ammo and created a new "+p" category. It's the difference between 17,000 psi and 18,500 psi. We're not talking about magnum force here.
Common sense should play a roll here. I would not and have not hesitated using +p in a second or third generation all-steel Colt D frame PPS or DS from post-war through the 70's. But I very much doubt I would stick them in a beaten up first generation from the 1920's. Nor would I shoot them out of an Agent or any alloy frame unless that frame is specifically rated for +p.
The original LSWCHP is rated as "+p" That's what I was talking about with SAAMI changing the standard pressure for the .38 Special. Back in the old days the only "hot" special was the .38-44 stuff that was up at .357 levels. Standard rounds included what we call "+p" now, including the LSWCHP FBI round.
I know people who have done so for years with no problem as long as it was a steel frame. The M60 I bought used from a friend was used with 3-4k rounds of +P before I bought it and is still tight and has never had any work done on it.
But...............................
As I got older and wiser I found there is not much to be gained from using a +P especially in a J-frame. I carry factory wadcutters in J-frames as they are easy on you and the gun and the bullet is already in an efficient shape.
But...............................
As I got older and wiser I found there is not much to be gained from using a +P especially in a J-frame. I carry factory wadcutters in J-frames as they are easy on you and the gun and the bullet is already in an efficient shape.
Cosmoline
Member
For defense or target? Factory .38 wadcutters are usually very weak, with impact force of well under 200 ft. lbs. The wadcutter bullet itself is fine, but you might want something with a little more power.
Serpico
Member
I carry +p in my airweight but only shoot standard pressure (have tried a few cylinders to see how they feel)...it's a pre-lock so I baby it since I can't easily replace it...if they still made them without the lock, I wouldn't care so much...
I think it is fine to shoot them in a steel frame gun. You have to remember that +P loads are very recent. If you look at the factory loads from the era these old J-frames are from and compare them to modern +P's, the old .38 specials are still more stout. S&W will say no because they don't want a lawsuit. +P is marketing.
chris in va
Member
What was the typical pressure with the old 1950's ammo?
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