Is It Possible S&W Will

[ArchAngelCD]

Release a medium frame DA revolver in 45 Colt?

S&W redesigned the K frame to release it in .357 Magnum once again and modifications were made to the L frame to allow it to be shot in .44 Magnum. 2014 was the first time S&W ever released a medium frame revolver in 44 Magnum. Before that they were always on the N frame.

Why not a K or L frame S&W revolver in 45 Colt? I WANT ONE!!!

 

[Jaymo]

I'd like an L frame in .45 ACP.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'd like an L frame in .45 ACP.

That would not be a bad thing either!

 

[rcmodel]

It seems unlikely to me.

Because there isn't enough room in a K or L cylinder for .45 holes, unless you want to see daylight through the paper thin sides to tell if it's loaded.

But then never shoot it.

rc

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I asked the same question about a year ago, and the resounding answer was that there just isn't enough metal available in the cylinder of a K or L frame to make it work. RC's response is disturbingly similar as in that thread.

 

[rcmodel]

Wonder why?

Could it be the same question gets ask every six months.
And I always say the same thing?

rc

 

[BSA1]

You can have a S&W Model 586/686 converted to a six shot 41 Special.

 

[ugaarguy]

It seems unlikely to me.

Because there isn't enough room in a K or L cylinder for .45 holes, unless you want to see daylight through the paper thin sides to tell if it's loaded.

Who says it has to be a 6 shooter? The Model 69 is a 5 shot 44 Mag L Frame. The 696 was a 5 shot .44 Special L Frame.

A 5 shot .45 Colt / .45 ACP L frame should be relatively easy to make if they feel there's a market. I'd rather see a 5 shot L Frame version of the 610, but maybe I'm just weird.

 

[rcmodel]

How many holes it has in it (5 or 6) only moves the bolt notches off the tops of the thinest part of each chamber and puts them between the thicker webs.

It does not make the chamber walls any thicker then they can be made with .45 cal holes in them.

The 5-shot .44 works because the bolt cuts were moved between the webs.

Drilling the holes to .45?
Not enough metal in the sides of the chambers.

rc

 

[ArchAngelCD]

But I want a 45 Colt! [stamping foot lol]

The walls are a lot thicker in the .44 Mag 5 shot cylinder L frame than the 6 shot cylinder in the N frame.
N frame is .088 to .092" and the L frame is .130"
Since the 45 Colt is a very low pressure cartridge are you guys sure there isn't enough room for 5 holes?

 

[Lucky Derby]

How many holes it has in it (5 or 6) only moves the bolt notches off the tops of the thinest part of each chamber and puts them between the thicker webs.

It does not make the chamber walls any thicker then they can be made with .45 cal holes in them.

The 5-shot .44 works because the bolt cuts were moved between the webs.

Drilling the holes to .45?
Not enough metal in the sides of the chambers.

rc

Not to mention the forcing cone. I own a M696 L frame .44 Spl. The forcing cone is paper thin now. There would be no FC left if they tried to go to a .45

 

[ArchAngelCD]

But S&W re-engineered the crane and the forcing cone so it's thicker on the new K & L frame revolvers. There is also a 2 piece barrel on the M66 and M69 revolvers.

As for the cylinder being too thin, I'm not sure.
The base of a .44 Magnum case is .457"
The base of the 45 Colt case is .480"
If you drill the cylinders to fit the 45 Colt case there will still be .107" between the cylinders, far more metal than the .092" on the N frame .44 Magnum revolver. Considering the 45 Colt is a low pressure round I don't see the problem.

 

[Lucky Derby]

I suppose that's possible as I haven't looked at the new production guns.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I was reading all about the M69 in the current issue of Handloader Magazine. (Dec 2014 #293) and that's where I got the information on the cylinder walls. That's what gave me the idea the 45 Colt might work too.

 

[ljnowell]

But S&W re-engineered the crane and the forcing cone so it's thicker on the new K & L frame revolvers. There is also a 2 piece barrel on the M66 and M69 revolvers.

As for the cylinder being too thin, I'm not sure.
The base of a .44 Magnum case is .457"
The base of the 45 Colt case is .480"
If you drill the cylinders to fit the 45 Colt case there will still be .107" between the cylinders, far more metal than the .092" on the N frame .44 Magnum revolver. Considering the 45 Colt is a low pressure round I don't see the problem.

The only point I could see being an issue is this, there is .107" between chambers, how much is left between the chamber and the outside wall of the cylinder?

 

[StrawHat]

I would like to see a 45 ACP option, or long Colt. I remember when the crowd that no's said the L frame could not be built in 44 Magnum, not enough metal, not enough cylinder etc. Good thing S&W did not listen to them. Will they build a variation of the 69 in a 45 caliber cartridge, I don't know, but I would like one.

 

[gotboostvr]

As badly as I want a 45 cal L frame, I'd rather see SW expand the 66 & 69 line up with some different barrel lengths. Specifically 3" for the 66 and 5-6" (with a preference for 5) for the 69.

If they release all 3 choices in the same year I may be liquidating a not small chunk of my current inventory to make it work.
Hopefully their not performance center guns, as I don't particularly care for the bulk of the differences and like the looks better on the normal production lines. Also, I'd rather save a bit if possible!

 

[ku4hx]

Possible sure. But I'd imagine perceived market demand would play a huge role in any decision to build.

Given the situation Colt is in, I'd suspect even the largest and most successful gun makers are sharpening their pencils as concerns new ventures.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Here is a photo of the cylinder from my K frame Model 19-3 with a 45 Colt case next to it.



Let's do a little math. There is about .080 of steel from the chambers to the outside diameter of this revolver with its 357 Mag chambers. A 357 Mag is .379 in diameter at the case mouth, a 45 Colt is .480. That's a delta of .101. If we divide the .101 in half, we get about .0505. If one is going to use the same frame size, one is stuck with the distance from the center of the cylinder to the center of the bore. So any larger chambering has to keep the same distance. Subtract .0505 from .080 and you get a chamber wall at the outside of the cylinder of only about .0295. No matter how many chambers are in the cylinder, you can't change that number. And then there is the matter of the bolt cuts. These are the weakest point on any cylinder. They are directly over the chambers in my Model 19, they would still be so with a 45, and they are about .050 deep. So the bolt cuts would go right through the chamber wall if it was chambered for 45 Colt in a K frame. Questionable if the bolt would even operate properly if it had an interference with a round in the chamber.

Regarding 45 Colt being a light pressure load, yes, but don't you think some yahoo would try to fire extra hot ammo in one? S&W would be in deep doo doo liability wise.

 

[RealGun]

Is It Possible S&W Will

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Release a medium frame DA revolver in 45 Colt?

S&W redesigned the K frame to release it in .357 Magnum once again and modifications were made to the L frame to allow it to be shot in .44 Magnum. 2014 was the first time S&W ever released a medium frame revolver in 44 Magnum. Before that they were always on the N frame.

Why not a K or L frame S&W revolver in 45 Colt? I WANT ONE!!!

My 5-shot, L-frame 696 (in 44 S&W Special) does not appear to have enough cylinder wall remaining nor forcing cone thickness remaining to safely or even physically handle the diameter of the 45 Colt round. That leaves the 45 Colt as an N-frame by minimum definition.

 

[RealGun]

Before reading the thread, only the title, I thought - Is It Possible S&W will...get a clue and move to a gun-friendly State.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

originally posted by rcmodel

Wonder why?

Could it be the same question gets ask every six months.
And I always say the same thing?

rc

I understand rc. You were right then and you're right now.

 

[HexHead]

I'd like to get a Model 69, but would pretty much only be shooting .44 Soecial through it. I'd be all over one in .45 Colt.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

As badly as I want a 45 cal L frame, I'd rather see SW expand the 66 & 69 line up with some different barrel lengths. Specifically 3" for the 66 and 5-6" (with a preference for 5) for the 69.

Both the M66 and M69 are fitted with 4.5" barrels already. Ruger was first with a 4.2" barrel and S&W followed with a 4.5" barrel to get around the 105mm barrel length restrictions in Canada. (4.134 inches) A 2.5" or 3" version would be great!

 

[CraigC]

I remember when the crowd that no's said the L frame could not be built in 44 Magnum, not enough metal, not enough cylinder etc. Good thing S&W did not listen to them.

Yes but that is still true. S&W had to redesign the L-frame to accommodate the .44Mag.

Still, the .44Mag is out there. I wonder why someone would want to chop the platform off at the knees just to have a .45.