Is it worth buying something in .357 SIG?

[hentown]

These are also just what SAAMI states. If you look at what competitive IPSC shooters are doing for Major power factor in Open pistols, they're pushing 9x19mm pressure to very high levels but they're also using specialized pistols that can take the pressure, probably something your run-of-the-mill plastic framed 9x19mm pistol wont do well (they do it because the brass is cheap and many people just throw it away).

I don't/won't ever load .357 Sig and won't own either a .40 S&W or .357 Sig handgun. However, the above quote is fraught with fallacious information.

The frame of a pistol has nothing to do with that pistol's ability to "handle pressure." A Glock 9mm is designed to shoot +p 9mm forever, with no pressure-related failures. I currently have my daily carry G26 loaded with +p+ Ranger Talon 127gr ammo. I have no fear that my G26 will turn into a grenade when fired.

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in kinetic energy @ the muzzle figures, as those figures are largely irrelevant for s.d. purposes...well, that is, except you to get to enjoy more recoil, muzzle flip and muzzle blast.

 

[abq87120]

My EDC is a Glock G23, a .40 S&W. I carry it stock. But for IDPA and USPSA shoots, I bought LWD barrels in 40-9mm conversion and 357 Sig for about $110 each with shipping. Both barrels drop in with no other mods. The 40-9mm conversion does require 9mm mags. The 357 Sigs are essentially a .40 case necked down to 9mm bullet . So, the 40 mags work reliably with 357 Sig bullets. The only difference between a stock Glock 40 and a stock Glock 357 is the barrel and the stamps on the slide.

I also reload all of my calibers. The 357 Sig reloading is more art than science. I use a compressed load of 13g AA #9, Starline cases and Precision Delta 124g JHP's work just fine (conical nose). And a Lee FCD die to finish them off. My loading manual claims 1400 fps, major power factor. All this hoo-ha is because the 357 Sig is prone to set back when it hits the feed ramp. Even factory loads occasionally have this problem. Makes an interesting Kablooie. AA #9 burns so slow it's hard to damage a gun with it.

Most other gun manufacturers can be converted between 40 and 357. But Glock parts are usually much less expensive that other brands by far. I converted my Glock (briefly) to a NY1 trigger. $15 + tax out the door. Have you ever heard of a trigger conversion for less than $200 on a name-brand 1911? What a rip off.

The 357 Sig is a fun round to shoot. Mine has a reduced muzzle flip, more if a pushy recoil than a flippy one. Wear good hearing protection. It can be loud.

 

[Teachu2]

My EDC is a Glock G23, a .40 S&W. I carry it stock. But for IDPA and USPSA shoots, I bought LWD barrels in 40-9mm conversion and 357 Sig for about $110 each with shipping. Both barrels drop in with no other mods. The 40-9mm conversion does require 9mm mags.

Odd - I have a pair of Gen3 G23s and use a LDW 40-9 conversion barrel with them. Both guns function perfectly using the .40 mags with the 9mm conversion - they just hold a couple extra 9mm cartridges (12 instead of 10 - I'm in CA).

 

[PabloJ]

No, I see no benefit of owning anything in this caliber and if you don't like what you get it will be next to impossible to sell it at favorable price.

 

[abq87120]

Quote:
Originally Posted by abq87120 View Post
My EDC is a Glock G23, a .40 S&W. I carry it stock. But for IDPA and USPSA shoots, I bought LWD barrels in 40-9mm conversion and 357 Sig for about $110 each with shipping. Both barrels drop in with no other mods. The 40-9mm conversion does require 9mm mags.

Quote:
Odd - I have a pair of Gen3 G23s and use a LDW 40-9 conversion barrel with them. Both guns function perfectly using the .40 mags with the 9mm conversion - they just hold a couple extra 9mm cartridges (12 instead of 10 - I'm in CA).

Yeah, I had the same experience. And, my 40's will actually feed out of a 9mm mag. But for competition, I still use the proper mags.

 

[zeke4351]

The .357 Sig was designed for a 125 grain bullet traveling at 1450 fps. Most people don't know this and they have never shot true .357 Sig ammo. Most ammo found in this caliber is watered down and is no different than a 9mm. The big name ammo company's such as Winchester or Federal etc. only claim around 1350 fps and seem to test short of what they advertise. Start paying attention to the specs on the ammo boxes that are sold as .357 Sig and you will see what I am talking about. One of the few places I know that you can buy true .357 Sig ammo is Underwood. They claim 1475 fps on the box and normally chrono 1500 fps or faster. Look at YouTube video testing of this ammo by tnoutdoors9 and you will see just how well a true .357 Sig will perform. Buffalo Bore and maybe a couple more places might sell the proper ammo but you have to know what you are looking for and shoot the full power ammo as designed to get any benefit from the .357 Sig. The Secret Service uses the .357 Sig to protect the President because it is known to penetrate just about everything except the human body. It will dump all of its energy to the body without exit for maximum damage. The .357 Sig was designed at 125 grains and 1450 fps to emulate the .357 magnum and it will do that only with full power ammo. People that dismiss it as 9mm +p+ do not know what they are talking about. Push a 125 grain 9mm bullet to 1500 fps and see how it works for you.

 

[CDW4ME]

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in kinetic energy @ the muzzle figures, as those figures are largely irrelevant for s.d. purposes...well, that is, except you to get to enjoy more recoil, muzzle flip and muzzle blast.

KE has to matter in handguns, or 357 Mag wouldn't perform better than 38 special +p

Generally speaking, 357 Sig delivers 15-18% more KE than 9mm +p and +p+
How much that extra KE increases incapacitation potential is debatable, but it should.

 

[AK103K]

People that dismiss it as 9mm +p+ do not know what they are talking about.

I learned this straight from the engineers at Speer.

"The 9mm is a 35,000 psi, +P is 38,500 psi and +P+ is 40,000 psi. The 357 SIG is a 40,000 psi. Bullets of the same weight will approximate the same velocities in 357 SIG and +P+."

I found that out while trying to defend exactly what youre saying, while researching the difference between the two.

My main question to Speer at the time, was, would the 125 grain bullet in the 357SIG perform differently, at the few hundred FPS it was traveling over the 9mm, and thier answer was "no", and for the reason above.

357SIG is already at its max at 40,000 psi. There is no more room to go "+P".

Everyone seems to have claims, but what I was often seeing, was higher velocities with lighter bullets, and apples to oranges comparisons.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

I don't think I'd buy a dedicated .357 SIG platform, but I'd like a .357 SIG barrel for my .40 P229.

 

[greyeyezz]

The magazines are interchangeable between .357 Sig and .40 S&W they use the same follower, they are just marked one or the other.

The followers are/where considerably different in a Glock, this is and older photo I don't know if they changed. I've heard .40 followers work fine with .357. It's your call.

 

[AK103K]

SIG's were sort of caliber specific with some of their mags.

I had a P239 that came with 357SIG mags, and you could not load .40's into the mags, as they were narrower in the front due to the 357SIG's bottle neck.

I did have a few spare mags for it that were .40 mags, and they worked fine with the 357SIG's.

 

[TfflHndn]

I have a Sig 229 with .40, .357 and 9mm barrels. The .40 and .357 use the same magazines. Sergei, check out EFK Fire Dragon for a barrel. I bought their ported .40 barrel and it rocks. I really like the .357 sig cartridge for its feeding reliability and flat shooting. I prefer it over the .40 and 9mm, maybe partly because I reload them so they don't break the wallet to shoot.

 

[cfullgraf]

Smith and Wesson magazines for the Smith and Wesson M&P40 and the M&P357 are labeled for both cartridges. At least in the M&P line, the magazines are interchangeable.

I do not find 357Sig any more difficult to reload than any other handgun cartridge, but the process is a little different due to the bottleneck case. It fits fine with my reloading process as I prefer to resize and prep cases shortly after shooting and then reload a large batch of prepped cases at another time.

 

[abq87120]

I know many police departments like this round because it will shoot through car doors. I also like it because it seems to have less recoil than my 40's. Fun to shoot and not that bad to reload once you figure it out.

 

[redbullitt]

I like the round… I don't shoot it, but I would lol.

I saw a comment about frame size. I think in glock pistols this can be something to consider. If you have smaller hands I would bet money you do not like the fat framed glocks i.e. g20 or g21. The g19 and smaller framed guns fit smaller hands very well in most cases, and there is a notable difference between how a 9mm glock feels vs a 45 acp glock feels in the hand.

There are smaller frames etc of course too.

My take would be to buy a glock in 40 SW. THEN buy conversion barrels. I am pretty sure the 40SW frame will run the 9mm and 357. You may have to change mags, but that is a small price for a new caliber.

IF you do not mind the fat 10mm frame you can go that route and do the same thing.

 

[abq87120]

Reply to Redbullit

"...IF you do not mind the fat 10mm frame you can go that route and do the same thing. "

I believe with Glocks, a 45 can be converted to a 10mm. A 10mm will not take a 45 conversion. It's the outer diameter of the barrel that sets the limits.

 

[CDW4ME]

I converted a Glock 23 (40) to 357 Sig with a Glock 32 barrel.
The 40 magazines worked, but I went ahead and put 357 Sig followers in them (picky me)
I prefer the recoil of the 357 Sig.
As a model 23, it hit a little high for my aim; as a 357 Sig it hit a little low.
I replaced the rear sight with a taller one (29/30/36) and POA/POI is perfect.
I like that pistol better as a converted 32.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I got a conversion barrel for a Glock .40 I had just in case I ever wanted to get into the .357SIG. It's a neat option but not one I would put a lot of $$ into now.

 

[bluecollar]

I don't think I will be holding one of MY 9mm pistols in MY hand and driving a 125 gr. round at close to 1500 fps

 

[Onward Allusion]

Yes. You can drop a 40 to 9 conversion in a Glock 22/23 and use the 40 mags but not recommended to do so for SD. You can do this with a few other 40's that have 9mm conversion barrels as well. You get a bit of rattle and will usually experience feeding problems on the last 9mm in the 40 mag.

 

[Onward Allusion]

Remember to get a higher weight recoil spring when shooting 357 from 40.

 

[AK103K]

They both use the same spring, you dont have to change them.

 

[Onward Allusion]

Depends on the gun. Yes, G22 & G31 use the same assembly, but I'd use a 20lb spring for 357 to reduce wear if not just for the recoil reduction.

 

[AK103K]

My 31 had less felt recoil than any of the 40's Ive ever shot. It feels just like a 9mm +P, +P+.

My 31 was showing aggressive wear on the underside of the slide, which the .40's also show. My 17's, with more +P+ through them than my 31 had 357SIG through it, show light finish wear at the same point, but no metal wear, whatsoever. They all use the same recoil spring.

My SIG's also used the same springs, and never showed any difference or appearance in wear, and again, the 357SIG's had less felt recoil than the .40's.

 

[ViniferaVizslas]

I'm no ballistics expert and I don't reload. I own all the common and many less common calibers. My long time favorite is a W German Sig 226 9mm. My primary carry is a Sig 239 .40 in which I prefer to shoot and carry loaded with .357 SIG.

I read what is posted about +p+ = .357 sig but for us off the shelf guys that doesn't seem to be the case:

Below are Underwood's 124 grain offerings. 125 gr .357 is the same.

Technical Information •Caliber: 9mm Luger
•Bullet Weight: 124 Grains
•Bullet Style: Speer Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point
•Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:

•Muzzle Velocity: 1300 fps
•Muzzle Energy: 465 ft. lbs.


Technical Information
•Caliber: 357 Sig
•Bullet Weight: 124 Grains
•Bullet Style: Nosler Jacketed Hollow Point
•Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:

•Muzzle Velocity: 1475 fps
•Muzzle Energy: 604 ft. lbs.


Also Buffalo Bore:

9mm

Item 24B/20 (+p+) 124gr. Jacketed Hollow Point 9

Browning Hi Power MK111, 4.6 inch barrel------------1330 fps
Beretta 92F, 4.9 inch barrel-------------------------------1304 fps
Glock 19, 4 inch barrel------------------------------------1296 fps

.357:


a. Sig. Mod. 229, 4 inch barrel - 1,430 fps (567 ft. lbs.)