Is McCain in 08 really that bad?

[Dmack_901]

I don't know much about McCain, but I know in a Clinton V. McCain situation I'd go McCain. If he's against inexpenisve guns and "AW"s, I disagree with him. But he seems like a decent guy who'd be able to drive the bus of a nation well, even if I'd like an adjustment in route.

Klinton would just wreck the bus with all of us on board. At least with a sane man, we can tap him on the shoulder tell him where we want to go. And if he disagrees we can get out in front of the bus or do whatever else is necessary for the change.

 

[tellner]

He voted for the MCA and the John Warner amendments that eliminated Posse Commitatus and gave the Executive total unchecked power to declare martial law, rule by decree and throw (and I quote from the Act) "undesirables" into camps without counsel or recourse.

He and everyone Democrat or Republican who voted for those twin obscenities deserves to be shot as a traitor to our most sacred founding principles and legal rights. I only hope that some day there will be Nuremberg trials to go with their Nuremberg laws.

 

[ArmedBear]

with a sane man, we can tap him on the shoulder tell him where we want to go. And if he disagrees we can get out in front of the bus or do whatever else is necessary for the change

I don't think he's sane, but I agree with your point.

Someone who sticks his finger up to see which way the wind is blowing is at least trying to represent his constituents, regardless of his motivations or personality flaws.

Someone who is dead-set on running the country in ways that I think are dead wrong, come hell or high water, is even worse for representative democracy.

This whole "strong leader" thing is something that I thought conservatives would balk at. Not "neo-cons" whatever they are, but the Bill-of-Rights-waving, Boston-Tea-Party-remembering conservatives.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Armed Bear, I don't at all disagree with your analysis. There is a lot of wisdom in it. Still the same, I will not cast my presidential vote for someone so contrary to my values as JM. I will vote third party, and I will not be alone. My arguments stand, however, as supplements to yours, i.e., they do not contradict each other. While your strategy for developing a third party is progressing (one hopes) there will still be third party candidates to vote for in the presidential races. At this stage in the game, they will garner few votes. However, that number will not increase until more people abandon the view that voting is akin to a horse race, i.e., you vote for the guy you think is going to win. Principle should have some part to play in voting, it seems to me.

 

[ArmedBear]

It should, and it does.

A lesser-evil vote can be a principled vote, as can be a vote for a third-party candidate. I don't think that a disagreement over tactics means that the other guy lacks principles.

I used to do some work for this company: http://www.mgtaylor.com/

They used this model to show how different perspectives on a problem can come from different vantage points, and people who may appear to disagree are actually just dealing with a different aspect of the problem.



Note that Philosophy and Culture ("principles") are "big picture" whereas Tactics, Logistics and Tasks are "little picture."

Anyway, there have been two times in our country's history when successful new parties emerged from thin air. Both times, lots of bullets were involved. Not pretty.

If we are to field a successful Presidential candidate in peacetime, I think we need to have some people who would make good Presidents, and who have reputations to back that up.

That said, I don't think voting for a Libertarian, say, in the general Presidential election is "unprincipled," nor do I think that voting for a major party candidate who seems to be the better option, if not a great choice, is "unprincipled." One might work better than the other in the short and long term.

Just wanted to make it abundantly clear that I don't demonize those with whom I generally agree, just because we might disagree slightly over tactical points!

This demonizing crap has to stop in America. Debate good, demonizing bad.

 

[Bruce H]

I think the SOB should have to pay for the aircraft he lost. McCain is just as bad as Feinstein or fifty other worthless senators. He is one of the poster children for whats wrong with the United States.

 

[Caimlas]

Armed Bear, superb post! That image sums up perfectly what I've been struggling to understand about many of those in the blogosphere who support the "Republicans at all cost, because the Democrats will sell us down the river!" philosophy of politics - despite their deeper thinking on other matters.

 

[CrazyIrishman]

I'm not quite up to date on McCain......YET, but I soon will be. OTOH, I don't care for Giuliani at all and I despise anything thats even remotely CLINTON!


Its a shame that there isn't a decent third party candidate to vote for who has integrity, abides by the Constitution, and who isn't neutered!

I've been voting since I was 18 and I feel that this election in '08 will be a bit more difficult to decide on than in the past. Never had to choose between two outright losers before.

 

[gunsmith]

mcclibby will never get past the primary

conservatives vote in the primary, I for one will never ever vote for him
or ghoulianni! no gun grabber will ever get my vote.

 

[xd9fan]

If the R party wants my vote, they'll have to earn it. No more mediocrity. They will need to find someone with Soul, Heart, Character and a true Conservative across the spectrum, be it fiscal, or social issues. That kinda leaves out Rudy, and the has been McCain. I thought Allen from Virginia had a shot, but he showed just how limp-wristed party hopefuls have become by not taking the fight to Webb. In all honesty, I have no idea of a candidate that is truly from the "Walk softly and carry a big stick, and Oh by the way here's a thunk on your head to let ya know I intend to use it." school of thought.
More Patton, less Paton leather*.

amazing how the party doesnt get it. Its turning into the Nationalist moderate party.

 

[Lupinus]

no thanks

If he gets the nomination I will be voting third party