Is my old 9mm brass the problem here?

[9mmGoon]

Dropping loaded round into the chamber is a start.....and even more so if while in the chamber you rotate it to see if it spins freely. But that is only a quick check. There is another better step to follow.

About an hour ago, I tested a new to me bullet in my chamber. Found an empty, unsized fired case that the bullet fit snugly in, then inserted the bullet just far enough to hold it, then pressed that into the empty chamber. First stop was when the ogive of the bullet engaged the rifling. kept pressing....which pushed the bullet into the case.....and kept pressing until the case head spaced on the mouth. At that point, the brass was in as far as it would go and bullet just touching the lands of the barrel. That length measured 1.135. To get a safe distance off the lands, I subtracted 0.015 thousands to give me the max safe COAL for that bullet in my gun.

That was 1.135 - 0.015 = 1.120 Which is also the book load from Nosler for that bullet. If the throat of my chamber was as little as 0.020 less than it is, that round would not chamber. It might look OK if dropped into the chamber, but would not go into battery.

If you are loading anything to a length of 1.150, you might be right on the ragged edge of what chambers and what doesn't.

Oh ok, i will try this exact method. I guess maybe a good idea to find my lands as well. That did not occur to me.

 

[Buzznrose]

I have a slow process as i do 50 pieces all one step at a time. Size all, bell all, prime all charge all, seat all then crimp all.
The charge weight as i have learned could be in question. All i have is a little Hornady digital scale.

I would not shoot any more until you have a good scale. Then, pull a few bullets and weigh the powder in them. If you find you have way too much powder (mine was reading almost 3 grains lower than actual powder amount), you will have to pull them all. May be worth it to look into this if you have 400 bullets to do:

Frankford Arsenal Pile Driver Bullet Puller

The Pile Driver Bullet Puller from Frankford Arsenal is designed to mount to your bench or wall for convenient access. The easy lever design uses spring...

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[Walkalong]

Unless contaminated, 30 year old cases aren’t the issue. Perhaps the OAL is too short. Perhaps your charges are heavier than you think. Perhaps you were getting setback.

You should have stopped before you did, when it was obvious something was wrong.

 

[Blue68f100]

30+ yr old brass is not the problem. Get a set of calibration weights to confirm your scale is accurate at the range your using it. With a 9mm, a 0.030" set back can double the pressure with some powders (fast burn). If the gun was designed and built properly it should not be able to fire in a out of battery condition. I'm leaning toward the fact that you had some bullet setback going on. It's a violent action when a auto load pistol loads the round. Just remember if your using mixed brass the neck tension is going to be different between mfg, sometime between lots, and number of times fired.

 

[mdi]

No Mas! Like mentioned above, stop. If I had that problem, I would pull about 60 random rounds and weigh powder. The blowouts in the pic look like pretty heavy loads even if fired out of battery (while primers aren't a good indication, a couple look suspicious too)..

 

[9mmGoon]

30+ yr old brass is not the problem. Get a set of calibration weights to confirm your scale is accurate at the range your using it. With a 9mm, a 0.030" set back can double the pressure with some powders (fast burn). If the gun was designed and built properly it should not be able to fire in a out of battery condition. I'm leaning toward the fact that you had some bullet setback going on. It's a violent action when a auto load pistol loads the round. Just remember if your using mixed brass the neck tension is going to be different between mfg, sometime between lots, and number of times fired.

.030 setback can double pressure!? Holy crap. Im at 1.150 col, so if one gets knocked back to 1.120 the pressure doubles?
Maybe this reloading thing is not my cup o tea lol

 

[packetloss]

Very unlikely that is the cases. I've used CFE pistol and there is no way 4.7gn behind a 124grn bullet seated at 1.15 would do that. Something else is wrong.

My first guess is that's not 4.7gn. Second guess would be bullet setback.

Do you have a calibration weight to confirm the accuracy of your scale? Do all your rounds case gauge or plunk in the barrel and spin freely?

I would not load anything until you pinpoint what is wrong.

 

[9mmGoon]

Yep that looks like an out of battery blow out.
Can you post a pic showing the side of the blown out cases?
I have reloaded brass legitimately from WW2 so it's not "old brass".

 

[packetloss]

.030 setback can double pressure!? Holy crap. Im at 1.150 col, so if one gets knocked back to 1.120 the pressure doubles?
Maybe this reloading thing is not my cup o tea lol

It's not that sensitive. You should be ok at 1.12, even 1.10 with 4.7gn of CFE Pistol. If it gets set back to 1.07 then you might have problems. 4.7 is pretty close to the starting charge for CFE pistol and a 124gn FMJ projectile.

I assume you purchased the CFE Pistol in a new container? So you are 100% positive that is the powder your using and not something someone labeled and told you was CFE pistol?

 

[N555]

I have ran some insanely hot 9mm loads and never seen that. Only time I saw anything like that was I was testing my sten gun for a catastrophic failure and went like 3grains over max with unique.
I blew out a case kind of like that in my sten gun and it was like "yeah whatever" and the case blew out all the way around.
Something is very wrong here.
Is 4.7gr really 4.7gr?
Are you sure you're using CFE pistol?
Only 4.7gr of anything that I can think of that might blow out a 9mm case like that is nitro100nf, but it's so fluffy and looks nothing like CFEpistol plus the case might overflow.
Do any of the cases appear to have heat discoloration?

 

[Buzznrose]

Responding to the picture in post #33

Ummmm dont take this the wrong way, but you need to be WAAAAYYYY more in tune with your loads when you shoot!

I’m glad that slide didn’t get launched off your gun back at your head.

I totally believe your scale is whacked!

 

[DanLee]

The cases in your picture appear to have blown out at the feed ramp. Some barrels don't provide enough support where the feed ramp enters the chamber. Brass exposed to ammonia (think cat piss) can lose the ductility needed to seal that gap. (The cat does not need to piss on the brass, only near it.)

 

[Blue68f100]

.030 setback can double pressure!? Holy crap. Im at 1.150 col, so if one gets knocked back to 1.120 the pressure doubles?
Maybe this reloading thing is not my cup o tea lol

This only apples to fast powders like TG when your all ready at max load. When TG was first released there were lots of reports of guns being blown up. The problem was traced to bullet setback. Once this was corrected with proper neck tension the problem when away. Most fast powders do not like being compressed. As long as your using a med burn speed powder you will be safe. Just make sure you have sufficient neck tension to keep the bullet from moving when it's rammed into the feed ramp. This is why matching the proper bullet with a proper case to give good neck tension. Remember neck tension is created by interface friction fit between the brass and bullet. Taper crimp does not add neck tension. When over done (TC) it reduces neck tension.

 

[Barmcd]

Bad brass? Looks to be name brand Win, so not likely. More like firing out of battery.......perhaps your chamber is too short for a round loaded to that case length?

Do these rounds pass a plunk test?

I load 9mm to 1.100 COAL. I didn't know an autoloader would fire out of battery.

 

[nettlle]

If this were to happen to me with my reloads my first thought would be an over charge due to a faulty scale, oversize bullets, or or the wrong powder for the recipe providing these are givens were met:

Gun works with factory ammo
The finished ammo meets all the diameters and lengths as given by the reloading manual.

I doubt it is the brass.

 

[Barmcd]

Very unlikely that is the cases. I've used CFE pistol and there is no way 4.7gn behind a 124grn bullet seated at 1.15 would do that. Something else is wrong.

My first guess is that's not 4.7gn. Second guess would be bullet setback.

Do you have a calibration weight to confirm the accuracy of your scale? Do all your rounds case gauge or plunk in the barrel and spin freely?

I would not load anything until you pinpoint what is wrong.

I use 5.3 gr of CFE Pistol with a 115 gr bullet and have no issues in any of my 9MM. I tried 4.8 gr, but neither one of my Springfield XD pistols would lock open after the last round with that load. I'm getting 1100 FPS out of 5.3 gr. I also question the accuracy of the scale the OP is using.

 

[N555]

I load 9mm to 1.100 COAL. I didn't know an autoloader would fire out of battery.

Depends on the gun

 

[AJC1]

In fact i am using a little Hornady digital scale. I will order the scale you mentioned asap.

Check weights are the key to verification. A bullet should be a sanity check in a pinch but many vary by a grain unless your using an smk or berger which are much more consistent

 

[9mmGoon]

It's not that sensitive. You should be ok at 1.12, even 1.10 with 4.7gn of CFE Pistol. If it gets set back to 1.07 then you might have problems. 4.7 is pretty close to the starting charge for CFE pistol and a 124gn FMJ projectile.

I assume you purchased the CFE Pistol in a new container? So you are 100% positive that is the powder your using and not something someone labeled and told you was CFE pistol?

Lord no, i bought it at BassPro

 

[9mmGoon]

I have ran some insanely hot 9mm loads and never seen that. Only time I saw anything like that was I was testing my sten gun for a catastrophic failure and went like 3grains over max with unique.
I blew out a case kind of like that in my sten gun and it was like "yeah whatever" and the case blew out all the way around.
Something is very wrong here.
Is 4.7gr really 4.7gr?
Are you sure you're using CFE pistol?
Only 4.7gr of anything that I can think of that might blow out a 9mm case like that is nitro100nf, but it's so fluffy and looks nothing like CFEpistol plus the case might overflow.
Do any of the cases appear to have heat discoloration?

 

[9mmGoon]

The CFE P came from BassPro

 

[9mmGoon]

Here are all the calibers i reload. For all of these i use only brass i have shot or purchased except for the 9mm. Out of all the rounds i have loaded and shot, these 9mm are the only ones giving me a problem which is why i instinctively lean towards the possibility it could be the old brass. I have picked up a few tips and things to try but i will definitely be buying some new 9mm brass and repeating the same exact loading procedure to find out if in fact it could be the brass.

 

[cheoah]

I'd hesitate to shoot any of that ammo based on your picture. Maybe it's setback, maybe it's brass, but one thing you can change easily is buy a couple hundred Starline cases and pass them down to your kid.

Just last week I had some minor case failures in my M1A, case vintage similar to your dads, because they were my dads lol.

Only Federal cases out of a batch of mixed brass in .243, it was factory ammo. There were some minor signs of corrosion but I was shocked with how weak the cartridge walls had become.

 

[9mmGoon]

Ive shot approximately 600 of them, have 400 or so left. But you’re right, im definitely scraping the 5-6 thousand cases that i still have and will purchase new brass for any future 9mm reloading. I have a hunch its the brass. Im no expert so idk, but maybe 9mm had lower operating pressures 30 years ago or this brass has just hardened. I tried to do a crush test and literally had to use the vise to do so. Here is the result…

 

[9mmGoon]

Responding to the picture in post #33

Ummmm dont take this the wrong way, but you need to be WAAAAYYYY more in tune with your loads when you shoot!

I’m glad that slide didn’t get launched off your gun back at your head.

I totally believe your scale is whacked!

I aint thin skinned so no worries, new mechanical scale on the way. I have shot alot of these next to the chrono and they were fairly consistent in the 1020-1040 range. I have much testing to do when the scale gets here. Honestly, i hope youre right and i have a bad scale.