Is my old 9mm brass the problem here?

Status
Not open for further replies.
N555 said:
What's your reloading set-up look like?
What are you using for a press, powder measure and scales?
What do the finished rounds look like?
Do you have access to a chronograph?
Click to expand...
All these questions have been answered
 
CQB45ACP said:
No you’re wrong in this instance and certainly in the context I said it.

Focusing on the past steps biases everything you do. “I KNOW I didn’t over charge” I know I had correct COL.” “I KNOW the powder was correct”. I know, I know, I know…boom.
Click to expand...
Which is exactly why i am on here asking if it could be the brass…because i do know what my calibrated scale measured, i do know what my calibrated calipers measured and i do know i used a recommended powder, primer and projectile listed in a manual written by people with far more knowledge on the subject than i currently have. So, in your opinion, could it be the old brass? Simple question
 
Last edited:
Yes, it could be the brass. Especially if it had been fired several times in unsupported chambers and then not sized ideally. I would be scrapping that brass unless you ID another potential issue.
 
Brass blowing up is fairly uncommon and that's why all the guessing (me too). It seems to me the brass is the only thing it could be since everything else seems to be in order.
 
Ohen Cepel said:
Yes, it could be the brass. Especially if it had been fired several times in unsupported chambers and then not sized ideally. I would be scrapping that brass unless you ID another potential issue.
Click to expand...
That's what it looks like to me. Check your cases for the "glock smile".
 
Bolson said:
That's what it looks like to me. Check your cases for the "glock smile".
Click to expand...
I have heard that in a different term, glock bulge. I guess it could also happen from a number of firearms with unsupported chambers but glock seems to carry the name. Although i have looked for this, i wander how easily it can be seen or would i need some type of magnifying device as im sure it would vary in severity.
 
jmorris said:
I say pick up any brass, that isn’t the brass you have now and load 10 rounds, with the same load.

If the result is the same as what you get now. The brass would become less of a suspect.

Reloading is more of a finesse activity, you are dealing with a lot of pressure and things that are more dangerous than you understand or you wouldn’t be contemplating going through another 400 rounds of failing ammunition.

No one wants to win the Darwin Award, it just happen. Stop, figure it out and resume, the eyes, fingers and firearm you save, just might be your own.
Click to expand...
I would associate finesse with curling. Seems reloading is more of a precision activity than one of finesse. Im more of the “know where it came from type” than “randomly pick it up and load it type.” Surprising advice from someone who seems to have so much understanding of high pressure and the dangers thereof.
In fact, i would go so far as to say the first priority of dealing with the dangers of pressure is the integrity of the vessel.
Wouldn’t you agree?
 
So Hornady scales which likely aren't the problem. I didn't see what you were using for a powder measure or how often you checked the powder drop.
CFEpistol looks like it would run pretty good through a powder measure so I would check it every 10th to 20th drop.
 
9mmGoon said:
I have heard that in a different term, glock bulge. I guess it could also happen from a number of firearms with unsupported chambers but glock seems to carry the name. Although i have looked for this, i wander how easily it can be seen or would i need some type of magnifying device as im sure it would vary in severity.
Click to expand...
To go from no Glock bulge to an occasional blown out case seems like over charge.
 
N555 said:
So Hornady scales which likely aren't the problem. I didn't see what you were using for a powder measure or how often you checked the powder drop.
CFEpistol looks like it would run pretty good through a powder measure so I would check it every 10th to 20th drop.
Click to expand...
Ok, i tumble this brass in a wet media tumbler with no additive. I then dry the brass in a Lyman brass dryer for 3 hours.
Next day i separate out 50 pieces into a loading tray. I then resize all 50 pieces in a single stage hornady press using an RCBS 9mm carbide die careful to drop each one in a Hornady case gauge checking for length and fit before returning it to a separate loading tray.
Then,,i bell each piece individually to the minimum amount to which the 124gn projectile will sit in the case mouth. Return the cases to the previous loading tray.
Next i prime each case with a Hornady hand primer with CCI 500 small pistol primers i bought at BassPro using the correct shell holder and inspect them individually for correct seat depth which should be slightly below the surface of the case base. The primed case are inserted into a separate loading tray in the inverted position so the primer is visible.
Next, i sit a sized, checked, belled, primed case on my warmed up and calibrated digital hornady scale and zero it to the case weight. After i pick up the case off the scale i note the value of the negative sum displayed by the scale.
I then charge the case with a hornady powder thrower equipped with the hornady pistol charge meter.
I return the case to the scale and measure the charge. If i see 4.7 i pick up the case an note the negative value displayed by the scale. If either the charge weight is incorrect or the displayed negative value has changed i dump the case and start over with a zeroed scale. If the charge weight is correct and the negative values match i put the case back in the loading tray. At this point it should be noted my reloading room is a constant temperature with humidity kept below or at 30%.
After all 50 cases are charged and in the loading tray i visually inspect them for uniform charges.
Next i seat the projectile using an RCBS seat and crimp die to the recommended coal of 1.150 +/- 2 thousandths.
In the hornady manual, it is recommended to use little to no crimp. As a bit of a safety measure im careful to use what i consider a little crimp. I have inspected and measured some factory cases at the case mouth to determine what anyone with a brain would consider satisfactory.
At this point i return to the case gauge for fitment and measure the coal with a calibrated caliper set to standard means of measurement.
Satisfied i have completed a round to every possible safe standard imaginable i repeat the process until i have 50 completed rounds.

My first 50 9mm rounds fired with no problem or signs of over pressure and averaged 1020-1050 fps using a Labradar chrono.
Satisfied with that success i eventually had 1000 loaded rounds ready to go.
Im not sure how many i shot before the first failure but fail one did.
And now, here i am, asking the internet,
“Could it be the 30 year old brass”?
Obtaining an answer has lead to more questions and speculation than answers unfortunately.
My initial route to an answer was just to duplicate the process in new brass and see for myself the results.
Note to self, always go with your gut…
 
You are very thorough. I commend you for that. By calibrating your scale are you saying that you are using check weights to check it? Is it possible you have a short throat in your chamber and the rounds are dead headed against the rifling?
 
9mmGoon said:
Ok, i tumble this brass in a wet media tumbler with no additive. I then dry the brass in a Lyman brass dryer for 3 hours.
Next day i separate out 50 pieces into a loading tray. I then resize all 50 pieces in a single stage hornady press using an RCBS 9mm carbide die careful to drop each one in a Hornady case gauge checking for length and fit before returning it to a separate loading tray.
Then,,i bell each piece individually to the minimum amount to which the 124gn projectile will sit in the case mouth. Return the cases to the previous loading tray.
Next i prime each case with a Hornady hand primer with CCI 500 small pistol primers i bought at BassPro using the correct shell holder and inspect them individually for correct seat depth which should be slightly below the surface of the case base. The primed case are inserted into a separate loading tray in the inverted position so the primer is visible.
Next, i sit a sized, checked, belled, primed case on my warmed up and calibrated digital hornady scale and zero it to the case weight. After i pick up the case off the scale i note the value of the negative sum displayed by the scale.
I then charge the case with a hornady powder thrower equipped with the hornady pistol charge meter.
I return the case to the scale and measure the charge. If i see 4.7 i pick up the case an note the negative value displayed by the scale. If either the charge weight is incorrect or the displayed negative value has changed i dump the case and start over with a zeroed scale. If the charge weight is correct and the negative values match i put the case back in the loading tray. At this point it should be noted my reloading room is a constant temperature with humidity kept below or at 30%.
After all 50 cases are charged and in the loading tray i visually inspect them for uniform charges.
Next i seat the projectile using an RCBS seat and crimp die to the recommended coal of 1.150 +/- 2 thousandths.
In the hornady manual, it is recommended to use little to no crimp. As a bit of a safety measure im careful to use what i consider a little crimp. I have inspected and measured some factory cases at the case mouth to determine what anyone with a brain would consider satisfactory.
At this point i return to the case gauge for fitment and measure the coal with a calibrated caliper set to standard means of measurement.
Satisfied i have completed a round to every possible safe standard imaginable i repeat the process until i have 50 completed rounds.

My first 50 9mm rounds fired with no problem or signs of over pressure and averaged 1020-1050 fps using a Labradar chrono.
Satisfied with that success i eventually had 1000 loaded rounds ready to go.
Im not sure how many i shot before the first failure but fail one did.
And now, here i am, asking the internet,
“Could it be the 30 year old brass”?
Obtaining an answer has lead to more questions and speculation than answers unfortunately.
My initial route to an answer was just to duplicate the process in new brass and see for myself the results.
Note to self, always go with your gut…
Click to expand...
Dang! I don’t know what half of that is. Get some new brass and be done with it:)
 
N555 said:
To go from no Glock bulge to an occasional blown out case seems like over charge.
Click to expand...
Im gonna say it again, there is no way i overcharged a case to the degree it would cause this type of failure. Not possible.
I reload, 308, 6.5 cm, 223, 45-70, 5.7x28, 38 Super to competition power factor 165, 44 magnum and las but not least .50 action express. The ONLY failure ive had out of 1000s of rounds of various calibers has been 9mm.
With that i can say with a fair amount of confidence, my scale is accurate.
 
frogfurr said:
You are very thorough. I commend you for that. By calibrating your scale are you saying that you are using check weights to check it? Is it possible you have a short throat in your chamber and the rounds are dead headed against the rifling?
Click to expand...
I checked both my pislols and FPC chambers and distance to lands last night and its very safe to say i ruled it out as a possibility. I might also add i keep my firearms meticulously clean. Just in case you were gonna suggest carbon build up lol
 
Your process is sound. 1020-1050 fps sound perfectly fine. I would still recommend disassembling any remaining rounds from that batch. I'd weight the charges just as a sanity check to rule out an overcharge. While doing so, check the cases to see if you see any signs of the glock bulge. It won't look quite like the pictures after resizing, but if you see anything in that pattern then that would be your cuprit. Perhaps those cases were from some +P charges in an unsupported chamber.

 
9mmGoon said:
Im gonna say it again, there is no way i overcharged a case to the degree it would cause this type of failure. Not possible.
I reload, 308, 6.5 cm, 223, 45-70, 5.7x28, 38 Super to competition power factor 165, 44 magnum and las but not least .50 action express. The ONLY failure ive had out of 1000s of rounds of various calibers has been 9mm.
With that i can say with a fair amount of confidence, my scale is accurate.
Click to expand...
If you loaded 5.7 and hot 38super with those scales and didn't blow up then I bet the scales are good.
Plus if you loaded all your 9mms heavy because of the scale you would have higher velocity.
What do you use for a powder measure?
I have seen powder measures drop about a 1 and a half charge drop from powder grain bridging. Lucky I was using a fluffy powder and it over flowed the case and the prior case had visibility way less powder in it than all the others.
Maybe check for a CFEpistol powder recall?
 
Last edited:
Going to throw this out there. I did see where you were going to get another scale. In the mean time, if you have varying weight bullets, try putting them on the scale and see if they are way off or weighting something else that you KNOW the weight of. Might give you an idea of whether the scale is off a bit or not. Just my $.04 worth (you know, inflation).
 
N555 said:
If you loaded 5.7 and hot 38super with those scales and didn't blow up then I bet the scales are good.
Plus if you loaded all your 9mms heavy because of the scale you would have higher velocity.
What do you use for a powder measure?
I have seen powder measures drop about a 1 and a half charge drop from powder grain bridging. Lucky I was using a fluffy powder and it over flowed the case and the prior case had visibility way less powder in it than all the others.
Maybe check for a CFEpistol powder recall?
Click to expand...
I use a hornady powder thrower with the pistol metering insert. Its very good with ball powder for pistol loads. Actually i did search for a CFE P recall and found nothing. Also emailed Hodgdon with the same question and they replied basically saying there hasn’t been a recall.
I will tell you this, the Hornady load data and the load data you find on Hodgdons website are not identical. In the book Hornady has some 900fps load data down to 4.2 grains. Hodgdons own load data shows 4.7 grains as the minimum charge but both agree on coal as 1.150 for 124gn fmj. I checked both sources before i started.
 
packetloss said:
Your process is sound. 1020-1050 fps sound perfectly fine. I would still recommend disassembling any remaining rounds from that batch. I'd weight the charges just as a sanity check to rule out an overcharge. While doing so, check the cases to see if you see any signs of the glock bulge. It won't look quite like the pictures after resizing, but if you see anything in that pattern then that would be your cuprit. Perhaps those cases were from some +P charges in an unsupported chamber.

Click to expand...
When i first heard of glock bulge, i did some research on it and actually bought the bulge buster with the makarov die. I haven’t used it because i read that even if you get rid of the bulge you’re not restoring the integrity of the brass. Youre merely removing the bulge to overcome feed issues. The recommendation is to shoot the bulge busted cases in a fully supported chanber like the ines found in certain CZ models if i remember correctly.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    102.8 KB · Views: 8
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B767Capt
  • Locked
9mm NT case?
Replies
11
Views
858
rfwobbly
rfwobbly
D
  • Locked
9mm reload problem
Replies
3
Views
530
Walkalong
Walkalong
D
  • Locked
Unique in 9mm - Compressed Charge?
Replies
12
Views
2K
Dudey
D
RainDodger
  • Locked
Military primer pockets - 9mm
Replies
13
Views
1K
Rule3
Rule3
S
  • Locked
Primer blowby - 9 mm handloads
2 3
Replies
62
Views
7K
vaalpens
vaalpens
Back
Top