Is S&W in the crapper?

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G

goon

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I generally don't generalize like this but lately I have seen some Smith and Wessons that were, how shall I put it, not all that great.

One was an M-28 that was sent in for repairs and came back worse off than it was when it left.
The second was the new 500 mag. I saw a 4" model that had something seriously out of whack with the cylinder/crane area. The crane was sprung about a sixteenth of an inch away from the frame with the cylinder fully closed. The cylinder was tightly pressed against the rear of the barrel on one side but there was about a 1/16 inch gap on the other side. I tried and couldn't open the cylinder. It was sent back to S&W for repairs and it came back with a note saying it had been fixed and test fired. The thing is that there was no way it could have been because you still couldn't open it up. It was exactly the same as it was when it was sent back.
What the hell is going on with these people?
This is a real shame. These guys have been around for what, about 150 years, and now they are getting to the point that they can't build a gun anymore.
 
Back in the 80's, knowing not what I was doing, purchased a single stack stainless model 639 9mm. It was a beautiful pistol. I picked it because it fit my hand wonderfully. And everything in it was stainless other than the walnut grips. That pistol was accurate, flawless with any ammo I ever put in it. Just a good design.

However, that was when they were owned by Lear-Siegler(sp?). They had elinminated QC. They built and shipped them. I happened to get a good one. But many weren't. I witnessed several just like mine over the years, that wouldn't feed anything. Design was good, execution was spotty.

Recently have seen enough to make me think QC still isn't in existance, though supposedly it is. Really is frustrating, would love to support them. But when they copy a Glock, only poorly in the Sigma, what do you expect.

Like many firearms companies, they need to be owned by shooters, not just businessmen.

Heck I currently own mostly Glock pistols. My only S&W is a model 41 in 22LR. Now that is a righteous design. From way back when. Seems as if it was designed for me it fits my hand so well, and shoots so effortlessly. You just simply, naturally hit what you shoot at with the 41.
 
I have bought several new SMith's over the past year including a 41, 629, 60 and 329 - no complaints with any of them.

In each case I compared with other available but similar models from competing manufacturers; Ruger, Taurus etc. and in each case I wound up with a Smith.

Other than a recall for a design defect on the 329, which Smith made good on and then some, all have been good firearms.
 
Everytime I have sent a gun (3 guns) back to S&W, they fixed them right. The last one I sent back was a 625-2 that had a binding problem. They replaced the crane, polished the chambers, and resprung the gun.

If one were to pick up this gun, they would swear it was new.
 
When dealing with manufactured items there are going to be some that just werent made right. Given the number of guns Smith makes I dont think two or whatever failures is overwhelming or means the co is in the crapper. My understanding is SIG has had a terrible problem with cracked slides on their 220 Stainless models. Everyone makes mistakes. Its how its handled after that that counts. Smith still has great customer service.
 
I MISS MY BELOVED SMITH & WESSON

Sorry to say....there isn't a single new Smith I am interested in.

If it isn't pre-agreement, I have no use for it.

The classic lines of the best wheelgun in the world is only to be found on SMiths without the darned lock thingy.

I have looked at new Smiths and my only conclusion is that quality is suffereing, and there is no soul left there.

I miss my Beloved Old Smith & Wesson.

Old Horace Smith & Daniel Baird Wesson must be turning in their graves.

P.S. I don't like ANY wheelguns BUT Smith & Wesson....except my Python and an old Police Positive.
 
The Rabbi said:
Everyone makes mistakes. Its how its handled after that that counts. Smith still has great customer service.
Click to expand...

Normally I would agree. The thing is that they sent the 500 mag back with the same problem. It was apparent that no one had fixed it but they still tried to pass it off as fixed.
 
Have to disagree with you....

All the the recent issue models I've handle have been a great improvement
from just a few years ago. My own 686-6 purchase new in may, is simply the
smoothest handgun I've ever owned. Smoother even than my dads early
sixties N frame, which was the standard by with we judged revolvers. He thought I had the trigger done. A buddy of mine bought a brand new 625
recently, and I have to say the same. I was just in the shop looking at
a 617 and if it werent for the price (too much for a 22) it would have come
home with me. All the guys I talk to at my club, seem to think Smith
has come back to the quality table. :D
 
Right often you hear of the S&W being compared to the competetion and being the better choice. Never is it mentioned that the S&W is the most expensive of the makers. And for this money they have painted finishes peeling off, barrels are coming loose, frames breaking, and PC guns that have to be sent back for action tuning (which by the way is what you pay for in a PC gun). Then if you do have to send one back to the factory it may take several trips to get everything fixed. You are suppose to be patient while it travels back and forth so in the end it will be better than new?
When actions are discussed you hear some say of them being smooth as silk, but the vast majority will say it will be smooth AFTER countless dryfirings. The ambitious and knowledgable owners immediatedly open them up, clean and lube the actions before ever firing a shot. Wolffe has a booming business supplying springs for brand new revolvers.
Considering the price tags, you get the same headaches that those who bought the competetion models got plus a big name. Not a real value in my book. How can you say with a straight face, Look at my new S&W I just sent back to the factory a couple of times so that now it's better than new?
 
They're doing great, broke some sales records last year. Some of that is from the manufacturing they do for other well-known firearms manufacturers. Their M1911 has been well received, proving along with SIG that the market for M1911's is seemingly infinite. The Performance Center 952 is on my Wish List.

I have a S&W 3913 bought used in perfect shape for $375. My favorite pistol.

http://www.smith-wessonforum.com isn't as active as this board but has some really knowledgable people, a lot of LEA Armorers and the like.
 
Smith in the Crapper

Well, I can't comment on the rest of the line, but I recently bought a 329PD, and I have to say....I'm extremely happy with it. It is accurate, smooth, reliable, and a joy to carry.....and shoot (with Specials...I've become a wimp in my old age).

If this weapon is representative of the new S&W, I'm a fan!
 
Of all the firrearms makers out there, S&W, Colt and Browning are tops in QC, with S&W being tops in prompt courteous service...

WildspeakingassomeonewhoseesiteverydayAlaska
 
Of all the firrearms makers out there, S&W, Colt and Browning are tops in QC, with S&W being tops in prompt courteous service...
Click to expand...

Wildalaska, the last comment's a joke.......right?

Or is it because your a dealer? The service I've received from them is nonexistant. Numerous attempts to contact Kate Fredette in service resulted in zero contact, and she didn't bother answering any of my several voice mail messages. Comments by other service dept people that my gun was junk, with the attitude that I shouldn't bother them by sending it in.

Is S&W in the crapper? Absofreekinlutely!

It will be cold day in Hell before S&W sees another dollar of my money.


J:fire:e
 
I guess everyone has different experiences. I was doing a trigger job on one revolver and couldnt figure out how to get the spring in behind the trigger. I called them, they connected me with someone who had been an armorer for years and he very patiently explained what to do.
With Paraordnance otoh, I lost a grip screw and emailed them only to be told they didnt send parts and Id have to get it from Brownells or something. Last Paraord I'd ever buy.
 
I have very mixed feelings about S&W. They are literally in my backyard and I know a few current and past employees.

In general I like older S&W revolvers and the Model 39-2. I do not care for too many of the new products although I did get a pretty good Model 342PD which is my new pocket gun. Some of their new revolvers, such as the little .22Magnum 7-shot revolver look promising. But I carefully check out anything I consider buying and only buy from a dealer I know can and will back me up with the company if I have a problem.

Case in point. About 8 years ago I bought a new 640-1 in .357Magnum. A nice revolver but it was spitting lead badly. My dealer sent it back for warranty work and when it came back it still had the problem. He sent it back a second time and called the office with a strong message to fix this *&^%$ pistol RIGHT this time. It came back with what looked like a Performance Center barrel and has worked perfectly ever since.

Since then I have sent two pistols back for factory work and both times have been happy with the results. I've also brought a few guns to their range on days when they have had some of their technicians there for free cleanings. In general they have done a good job and have been very helpful and pleasant to talk to.

Anyone who has been in the military knows the saying about 1 "aw-chit" can wipe out 1300 "atta-boys". No where is this more true than in customer service, especially in the gun industry. We have long memories it seems.
 
Wildalaska said:
Of all the firrearms makers out there, S&W, Colt and Browning are tops in QC, with S&W being tops in prompt courteous service...
Click to expand...

The best of the American companies or all of them?
 
J Miller said:
Wildalaska, the last comment's a joke.......right?

Or is it because your a dealer? The service I've received from them is nonexistant.
Click to expand...

WA is not that kind of guy and your experience with customer service is not consistent with mine or what I have heard from many others.

At the same time, perhaps they are in some way reacting to how you've handled them?
 
Highland Ranger Quote:WA is not that kind of guy and your experience with customer service is not consistent with mine or what I have heard from many others.

At the same time, perhaps they are in some way reacting to how you've handled them.
Click to expand...

I've read enough of WildAlaska's posts to know that he does on occasion speak with toungue in cheek. So it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilitys for him to joke about it. Maybe you should let him answer my question.

As for S&W reacting how I've handled them, not likely. In each case when I've talked to the person on the phone I've been courteous and professional.
Other than that I've not been able to get ahold of any body. So why are you assuming I acted in a negative manner? Hmmmm?

I'd love to get someone who can do something about this on the phone, but it doesn't seem to be possible. I can only spend so much time sitting on hold, or leaving voice mails.

As for my experiances being inconsistant with yours, what can I say? I've read posts by other dis-satisfied customers, so at least I'm not alone.

Glad you like them, I'll stand by my last comment.

Joe
 
I'd have to offer the opinion that S&W is well on their way to regaining some of the market that they've lost while under the previous ownership.

Opinions are worth what you pay for them, though ... :neener:

I'm a certified armorer for 3 different manufacturers, and I've had reason to be in contact with a couple more manufacturers for various needs from time to time.

My experience of the last several years has been that S&W's Customer Service and support has been steadily improving, especially since their recent change of ownership.

One of the L/E vendors I know has handled several makes of handguns for L/E sales. While he presently handles 3 other manufacturers, he's told me that S&W's Customer Service is still the best in the business.

I'd have to agree with him ... although Ruger is a close second.;)

I'm sorry you had a less than satisfactory experience, and I suggest that you don't let it go by unanswered.

Browsing among the various other firearms related forums, it's becoming noticeable that more and more S&W handgun owners are receiving very good to excellent results when dealing with S&W for repair or warranty issues.
 
I've had 2 dealings with S&W once in the early 90's involving a K-38 with a lot of miles on it and recently with a Walther P22 that was inaccurate and the barrel leaded. In both cases got prompt service. The K-38 was no slouch in the accuracy dept when I bought it new but came back even better and is the most accurate revolver I own today. The P-22 took 2 weeks, came back with a new barrel and Smith paid the shipping both ways, gun shoots well and doesnt lead. I am a satisfied customer. Nick
 
If I had a dollar for each instance that I read this sort of thread.

Hmm... the Taurus is catching up to S&W in quality posts will make me rich too.


Well over 90% of my handguns are Smiths. Except for a handful they are all 90s to recent production. I'm very happy with all of them. I'm not a sometimes shooter who goes to the range maybe once a month and shoots paper slowfire. I handload and shoot every week blasting reactive targets as fast as I can with both wheelies and autos (some will cringe at my way of using a Model 27). Once a month I participate in action pistol matches. IOW I abuse my Smiths. They deliver. AFAIAC Smiths are tops.
 
OK I was not joking...

So let me toss some meat to the lions here and tell ya this...

I have been in the gun biz for 20 years, the last 8 full time. Here is my take on current QC of major manufacturers in order, best to worst

1. S&W, Colt, Browning (tie)
2. Marlin/Remington/Beretta (tie)
3. Winchester/Ruger/SA rifles/Kimber (tie)
4. Mossberg
5. SA Pistols
6. Taurus
7. Savage


Dont have enough experience with HK to rate theri QC

Heres my take on service:
1. S&W/Colt/browning/Remington/Marlin (tie)
2. Ruger
3. Taurus
4. Mossberg
5. Savage
6. Winchester
7.Kimer
8. Beretta
9. HK

All in my humble opinion

WildandiseemorebrokenstuffinaweekthansomeseeinalifetimeAlaska
 
I think S&W is doing just fine. I've purchased over 2 dozen S&W handguns in the last 5 years, over half have been new. The latest was just 2 weeks ago. They all work great. Every one of them is still in my safe.

Nothing but praise from me for their design, quality and value. Customer Service is tops also. I called to order a part for my latest purchase just this week. It's a 16 year old used semi-auto. The no charge part is on it's way.

I don't doubt some folks have had disapointing experiances, maybe I'm just lucky... but I don't think so.

Joe
 
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