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Is society pushing guns out?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by servantofinari, Mar 5, 2009.

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  1. servantofinari

    servantofinari Member

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    Why do guns seem to be taboo? I was raised around them, my dad bought a .22 LR for me a week before I was born (nice little lever action, some difficulty with ejection but still nice) and I have always been taught that they are tools, well maintained and careful handled they are relatively safe. Knowledge about guns just sticks in my head. I’ve been given such a bad time about this for so long that I have actually started to dislike myself for it. Every where I turn people are throwing a fit about guns and the people I meet at the range (which is in the middle of no where. Understandably the safest place for a range but it does add to the feeling of “Taboo”) Are very impersonal, they show up, shoot, occasionally call for an all clear, then leave. It was refreshing to find someone at the range the other week who was willing to talk about his FN/Styer collection (shocked a few when I was able to tell his handgun was a FN Five-seven USG modal, the trigger guard gave it away.) But am I alone in this? Is the society of today pushing guns out slowly? I know it sounds stupid but I’m just looking for some input.
     
  2. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    I'm having the opposite experience. I'm finding a lot more people open to the fact that I own guns.

    Couple that with the fact that at no point in history could you get a permit to carry a concealed firearm so easily and in so much of the country.

    Gun ownership is going through the roof (as the economy slows to a crawl, gun shops are selling out their inventory).

    Even hardcore anti-gun politicians are very quick to tell us they aren't going to take our guns when just a couple decades ago they would gleefully tell us that they would be proud to eliminate the second amendment and round up all our guns.
     
  3. erict

    erict Member

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    I'm with Zundfolge on this one. I actually had a "non gun" guy here at work comment that his local gun store has looked like a church parking lot lately because it is so full of cars.

    I do see your point of view though and I think it has alot to do with the way society as a whole is changing. As more and more areas get developed there are less places to shoot and less people hunt for food so instead they purchase more food at the local supermarket.

    Alot of people were introduced to firearms in earlier years because they were tools that were necesarry for every day life. I think many people have gotten away from that since our country has become more populated and modernized.

    I don't think that people are pushing guns out but I do think alot of people see that they may not necesarrily have as much use for them as previous generations did. There are alot of people that have never shot a gun and they are kind of ignorant to firearms so it is our job to open their minds a bit and introduce them.

    I recently took a friend of mine shooting. He grew up in the city and never fired a gun before. He was HOOKED from the first shot and a natural shooter too. His wife is coming with us next week so I'm pretty excited. I think there are alot of people out there that are on the fence due to ignorance about firearms.
     
  4. servantofinari

    servantofinari Member

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    You know whats realy bad... I live in Colorado, and not in Denver.
     
  5. ByAnyMeans

    ByAnyMeans Member

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    I also disagree. I have had many more people open to discussing firearms with me and have guided many new buyers in this newest rush to arm America.
    I also see many new positive gun laws in the states and the federal level. While there are many negative news story I think a part of it is sensationalistic journalism and a "gun grabbing" agenda. I don't discount a push for firearm regulations by this new administration I just see a lot of positive occurrences as well aside from them.
     
  6. alemonkey

    alemonkey Member

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    It seems to me that the younger generation is much more pro gun than the baby boomers.
     
  7. DHJenkins

    DHJenkins Member

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    It's because most people get their opinions from someone else, and people who aren't raised around guns are taught to fear them. Even people raised around guns can have irrational fears.

    Anyway, I wouldn't worry about the range attitude. It's probably just a reaction to the massive influx of new, inexperienced, un-trained folks waving their guns about entirely oblivious of range ettiquette.

    As far as range location, I wouldn't read too much into that either - real estate prices go up and a good-sized range would fetch a mighty nice sack of loot in an expanding city.
     
  8. warnerwh

    warnerwh Member

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    Maybe the fact that people are learning more and more to not believe politicians actually care what is good for them. It seems to me also that non gun people have been changing their attitude toward guns. Certainly not enough date to be conclusive though.
     
  9. feedthehogs

    feedthehogs Member

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    Took my wife, daughter, grand daughter, SIL out to eat last night.

    We spent most of the dinner conversating about guns, ammo and a new concealed carry piece for my daughter since the Glock 19 with a purse, diaper bag and kid is too much.

    I'm giving her my pocket KelTec and getting the Glock back.

    Only people( I talk semi loud cause I'm half deaf) that frowned over our conversation were some ancient Yankee snow birds across the isle.

    But then again their frowns could have been gas pains.

    I find more people than ever are discussing guns and more in a positive note. Spent time today discussing with a customer about the ammo shortage.
     
  10. servantofinari

    servantofinari Member

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    I like his explanation the best, but i like getting others opinions, saves time and pain.
     
  11. cbrgator

    cbrgator Member

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    It seems to me like the movement is in OUR favor. DC Heller confirmed the individual right. More states than ever have enacted CCW laws. Now states are enacting laws to prevent employers from banning employees from keeping guns in their cars. As far as I have seen, there hasn't been too much legislation to the contrary.
     
  12. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    Different issues are headed in different directions

    While things have expanded in the areas of concealed carry and self defense issues, I don't know that we've made much headway on the so-called "assault weapon" fears.

    Heller is a victory, but Wyoming's recent attempt to nix several reciprocating states is frustrating. We have an anti gun administration, but things seem to ebb and flow, for and against our cause.
    I'm sure it will never end, but my optimism increases with every state sovereignty bill and response to Holder's recent interview (although neither is a victory per se).

    To answer your question...
    If true, I guess it is because we've allowed it to happen.
     
  13. MovedWest

    MovedWest Member

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    I've been wondering this exact same thing myself recently. Granted I live in the liberal Mecca of California, but even elsewhere I see a difference. I asked myself when it began to change and why it began to change.

    I personally think the media is largely to blame. No news is good news, but even if it was no one would want to hear it. Look at the poor guy picking up a friend at LAX who got searched back in January who turned out to have 16 guns in the back of his truck. He hadn't broken any laws (except the misdemeanor offense of carrying a loaded gun - two were loaded) but yet the news was heard as far away as Europe and South America. Gang violence is easy to associate with guns because of the nature, but instead of blaming the gangs the media blames the guns. But let's not forget, the cops have guns, too!

    Think about the 2004 quake in Indonesia and the following tsunami. Thanks to the media hype you'll never hear about an earthquake without hearing about the associated risk of a tsunami. I recently heard a news report about some people who had done something and the reporter mentioned they had "cold and allergy medication" (which is commonly associated with crystal meth production). And what's the first thing that comes to mind when I say Catholic priest and little boy? It's all programming by the media and gun owners are not the only victims.

    Sensational media draws viewers. Viewers sell TV commercials. Ironically, commercials sell things that make news... like cold and allergy medication. Gun phobias are an unfortunate casualty of the media circus.

    Just my 2 cents,
    -MW
     
  14. Ed Ames

    Ed Ames Member

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    The problem comes from an old foggie (born before 1940 maybe?) ethic of not talking about certain things. Doing so was considered half way between bragging and asking for trouble. So they didn't talk about tools, nice stuff they might have, and so on. Including guns. All well and good, except.... when you treat a subject as taboo you not only give them (whoever "they" are) reason to call it dirty, but you take yourself out of the discussion.

    Sometimes you've got to take a risk, to expose yourself to risk, in order to be accepted as normal. They didn't take that risk... and now we've got you, in a world where guns are taboo... and it is up to you to do something about it.

    What to do? I'll give my testimonial.

    I grew up in SoCal. Guns were totally hidden... a gun store that opened near where I grew up had protesters out front because the presence of such a store would corrupt children. Nobody owned guns (well, they did, but if you asked they'd lie), nobody used them, nobody talked about them.

    I was 30 before I ever discussed owning guns with anyone outside of immediate family. I once discussed shooting but it was not in the context of owning. The closest I came was that I had a key on my keyring, one of the little keys that came with Ruger pistols and had a Ruger emblem, and once or twice I showed it to someone and asked them what they thought it was. Nobody identified (or acknowledged) the emblem so that was that.

    Then one day I realized that I couldn't blame the foggies any more -- now I was the problem. I was doing what they had done, was letting guns stay taboo in my social circle. So I started talking to people. I started conversations. I also started telling friends things like, "I'm going to the range next Saturday at 2PM... if you want to do some shooting just show up and look for me." I didn't push it, but I didn't hide it.

    There have been three general outcomes.
    1) I have discovered existing shooters who were already part of my social circle but never opened up.
    2) I have introduced new people to shooting, in some cases creating new shooters, in others at least demystifying and clearing away misconceptions.
    3) I have been the "undeniably sane person" who turns out to be a gun owner and opens the eyes of a few antis. In one case that worked out to my benefit to the tune of a free gun when the anti's gun-owning family member died and they turned to me for disposal advice (they wanted to take it to the police....I gave them a locking case, told them the laws, told them it was worth $$$, and offered to buy it...a day later they said "it should be with someone who will enjoy it" and gave it to me -- it is one of my range regulars).

    A few of my coworkers and I were talking the other day and, because I brought up shooting, we are now organizing an office-wide range day in a few weeks. We have about 15 people lined up to go so far and might reach double that...a good many totally new shooters... no, it isn't an official company event, but it is positive contact that never would've happened if I hadn't started a conversation about owning guns and shooting.

    It's up to you to start the conversations....and it is a risk...but there are rewards too.
     
  15. servantofinari

    servantofinari Member

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    I think you're right. Guns need someone to defend them, an odd turn around. I have never hid my love of gun. And I have no intention of it. It just is a pain, especially when I remember being sixteen and everyone still trying to hid death from me. My parents have always been very blunt about life so that was never a problem.
     
  16. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    I don't know where you are in Colorado. I've lived here for about 10 years and have found that the vast majority of people I meet in person - if the topic comes up - are either neutral or interested.
     
  17. PT1911

    PT1911 Member

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    I have a sneaking idea that even the "high ups" who oppose everything about guns, go home each evening to make sure no one has seen their shotgun is still propped up behing the door...
     
  18. BHP FAN

    BHP FAN Member

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    When I was a kid, you could ride across town, on your bicycle with a .22 across your handlebars. Nobody would say a thing.Those of you who don't think things have gotten worse,should try that.
     
  19. moooose102

    moooose102 Member

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    i am not so sure about society as a whole, but certainly the media is! in major cities, where most peoples exposure to guns is from criminals, they probably have a bad outlook on guns as a whole. but i think most folks out in a rural setting are much more acceptant of them.
     
  20. MatthewVanitas

    MatthewVanitas Member

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    I'm in my 20s, and have found most people, even in "liberal" Austin, to be quite receptive. I did a lot of flyering and recruiting for UT's campus shooting range, and had a mere handful of really negative "that's terrible" responses compared to hundreds of "wow I've always wanted to try that!" responses from a huge variety of males and females of varied ethnic groups. The UT campus club, when I coached there, drew about 50% Asians (if we count South Asians as well), and about 30% female shooters.

    That said, and this is purely anecdotal, when I was attending a colloquium in Los Angeles I offered to take anyone from my class (10 people) out shooting. One guy from Chicago actually went, one Iranian wanted to go, and at least four others (from NYC, Hawaii, and SoCal) made a face and said "that's terrible, why would I want to do that?" So I have run across random groups where it was not well-received.

    Overall though, I've met a ton of 20-somethings who had never been shooting but were eager to try it out. Out of several hundred new shooters I've coached (mostly at the UT campus range) I've had a total of maybe 3 that had an unpleasant experience, and most of those showed up for the safety brief but then refused to touch a gun. I even had several that were initially very resistant but tagged along with friends or came as a personal challenge, and ended up really enjoying it.
     
  21. ComradeBurg

    ComradeBurg Member

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    I think it depends on where you are to how society is treating guns and gun owners.

    During college I was around a seemingly infinite number of anti-gunners. Just mentioning that I was a gun owner (which I always proudly state) was enough to set people off. Granted most of these people were anti-gun because they wanted to be "progressive." In other words if something can harm people they wanted to be against it (as long as being against it didn't inconvenience them, most of them were for having a car which are far more deadly).

    At work it seems half of the company I work for is pro-gun and the other half is anti-gun. Both sides have strong opinions.

    I have a lot of friends who are pro-gun and a lot who are anti-gun as well. Honestly I notice more of a split then an acceptance or rejections.
     
  22. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    Of course to be fair, Zak spends 95-98% of his waking hours at the range surrounded by serious shooters :neener:
     
  23. jbkebert

    jbkebert Member

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    When I was in high school not all that long ago. 15 years now I got into a fight at school. After the principal got through chewing my rear out he told me that I would be suspended for a week. {I am going somewhere with this}. He asked me about the farm my family owned north of town. He wanted to know if we had any turkeys on it. I spent my 4 days while I was kicked out of school turkey hunting with the high school principal.:D
    Last year I was called to the same school district where I went about my oldest son. The principal was concerned that he talked about hunting to much and wondered if I was setting a good example for my son.:fire: The principal went on to tell me that my son was lying alot to his classmates. He was saying things like he got to shoot guns, and he went to 3-D archery shoots with his dad and even won a couple trophies. Needless to say I was pissed I went home and came back to the school with pictures of my sons first deer and his archery trophies and set them on the bastards desk:D
    So much has changed over a course of just 14 years it is hard to believe.:banghead:
     
  24. Kind of Blued

    Kind of Blued Member

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    I think that you've hit on something to a degree unfortunately. I haven't been alive or into firearms for all that long, but the reaction amongst younger folks is either uneducated but interested, or uneducated and "foreign", either way, they're uneducated in regard to firearms and the role they are meant to play in American culture in light of our history and Constitution. Either way, I think the issue is ignorance; the belief that the police can and will protect you is widespread and most people will never in their lives be told that this assumption is untrue, nor will they agree that self-suffiency is an admirable or desirable ability.

    I think it would be hard to argue that anyone is more at fault than the media as far as actively criminalizing firearms. They naturally need an "antagonist group" in order to do their job and blaming socio-economics, low education, or racism/sexism/ageism/etc just isn't that interesting.

    I tend to think that we're still in a progression that began around the time of the Enlightenment era or the "scientific revolution", and 99% of the time that's a great thing. I also think that the country which was meant to be the culmination of all of that thought and sociological, ethical, and philosophical progression has never truly existed in its purest form. Nevertheless, we're likely as close as mankind will ever get, but if we want to have a shot at bettering ourselves, the Second Amendment needs to be actualized, or at least preserved in its current state.
     
  25. Match14

    Match14 Member

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    I lived in Arvada Colorado from 99 to 03, I think that the negative impressions of firearms and their owners are partly the result of to many people who aren't responsible. I never did any shooting in the mertro area, rather my father and I would drive to the foothills and pull off a road to shoot. I would usually see shot up road signs, and lots of garbage like tv's that had been left behind.
    Personally I consider such actions to be reprehensible, and I consider myself pro RKBA, I can only guess that those neutral or anti take even dimmer view of such.
     
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