Dksimon
Member
The older 870's are better than the current ones. The fit and finish is alot better. but I think that the 870 is still near the top.
Is the 870 still the gold standard?
- Thread starter Smith357
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I use my shotguns harshly and for that reason I cannot like my 870E no matter how much I try. I bought it purely out of the fact that I wanted a gun with a steel receiver (and most people here only like it because of that). After breaking an extractor it left a bitter taste in my mouth. Changing parts out on the 500 is not easy, but at least Mossberg thought it out beforehand. Remington just didn't think anything through. The lifter pinches **** and plantlife because of its position. It does keep stuff out, but once stuff gets in there you have to cycle it sometimes. Someone needs to be slapped for the position of the slide release. Cross-bolt safety is ok, but other manufacturer's found better locations like on the bottom of the tang or the back of the receiver like the Mossberg. The action is shaky and loud on the Mossberg but its better than tight. With the 870, the action gets gritty and gooey with dirt/lake scum after awhile. Even after saying that I bet its possible that you can loosen or tighten it on both shotguns although I've never tried.
There isn't much to a pump shotgun and it feels like Remington tried their hardest to **** it up.
Has anybody ever tried moving the slide release as a modification?
There isn't much to a pump shotgun and it feels like Remington tried their hardest to **** it up.
Has anybody ever tried moving the slide release as a modification?
SwampWolf
Member
Okay, this won't sit well in certain quarters but you asked for opinions. For a long, long time, in the arena of pump shotguns, the "gold standard" was the Winchester Model 12, with the Ithaca 37 and Remington 31 being worthy runner-ups. Around 1950, the Remington 870 arrived on the scene and, for reasons of extreme reliability, good handling, good workmanship and,especially, its deliberately planned low cost of manufacture, before long, it became the new gold standard- but not necessarily for the same reasons and criteria the traditional standard implied.
There's little question that the 870, along with Mossberg's 500 and, to a much lesser extent, Winchester models 1200/1300, for good reasons became America's most popular shotgun(s). But my pick for the gold standard in pump shotguns for the 21st century is the Browning BPS. The lines, features and workmanship of this gun sets new standards in the realm of slide-action shotguns-in the same way the old model 12 did for so many years before the 870 came along and usurped the throne.
There's little question that the 870, along with Mossberg's 500 and, to a much lesser extent, Winchester models 1200/1300, for good reasons became America's most popular shotgun(s). But my pick for the gold standard in pump shotguns for the 21st century is the Browning BPS. The lines, features and workmanship of this gun sets new standards in the realm of slide-action shotguns-in the same way the old model 12 did for so many years before the 870 came along and usurped the throne.
I have have onwed and/or shot many of each of the shotguns being discussed here, 870, 500, and supernova. They are all serviceable weapons. I personally prefer an older wing master to any of them. I like Benellis, I've shot many of them, used them to hunt etc, but I really don't see the super nova as having any edge on the 870.
As I said I personally like the 870 the most. I wouldn't feel horrible if I only had the others though. To someone who hasn't yet developed a preference I would suggest handling some guns and shooting them if possible.
As I said I personally like the 870 the most. I wouldn't feel horrible if I only had the others though. To someone who hasn't yet developed a preference I would suggest handling some guns and shooting them if possible.
Make mine an 870
About a year ago I bought a Mossberg 590 because I had heard so much good about them. It is a tough shotgun and there is nothing wrong with it. The problem is that there really is nothing to love about it either. The old 870 Wingmasters are smoother than smooth for the most part. The newer express models are not as smooth but, are pretty tough just the same. I recently bought an 870 HD that was very slightly used. I really am not sure that it had ever been fired to tell the truth. It is waaay smoother than my Mossberg, which, by the way, I plan on keeping. I plan on putting it, and my shoulder, through their paces with some very stout loads in the not too distant future. At the same time I will bring the 590 along just for the sake of comparison. I cannot speak to the quality of the Browning or the Bennelii, but the Benneli Nova looks like a space gun to me.
About a year ago I bought a Mossberg 590 because I had heard so much good about them. It is a tough shotgun and there is nothing wrong with it. The problem is that there really is nothing to love about it either. The old 870 Wingmasters are smoother than smooth for the most part. The newer express models are not as smooth but, are pretty tough just the same. I recently bought an 870 HD that was very slightly used. I really am not sure that it had ever been fired to tell the truth. It is waaay smoother than my Mossberg, which, by the way, I plan on keeping. I plan on putting it, and my shoulder, through their paces with some very stout loads in the not too distant future. At the same time I will bring the 590 along just for the sake of comparison. I cannot speak to the quality of the Browning or the Bennelii, but the Benneli Nova looks like a space gun to me.
If people would just learn how to operate the crossbolt safety on a Remington you will find it much quicker and easier to operate. Even for left handed shooters. I mount the gun and disengage the safety using the "2nd pad" on my trigger finger. I place the gun back "on safe" by reaching behind the trigger guard with my middle finger. Lefty's just reverse the process. It can be engaged and disengaged easily without ever removing your finger from the trigger guard if you like.
Before being accused of unsafe gunhandling remember the gun is on safe and my finger never enters the trigger guard until after the gun is mounted and pointed at the target. This is the same finger movement used to disengage a Garand or Ruger Mini 14. With the Mossberg type safety it is impossible to disengage the safety with your hand in the correct firing position and most shooters will take the gun "off safe" before mounting it to the shoulder in order to reposition the hand for firing.
I am of the opinion that the Mossberg safety is in the worst possible location. It is not on the tang as many state. A double has the safety on the tang. A Mossberg safety is located on the top of the receiver in a location where it can easily be damaged or accidentely be knocked to the "off safe" position.
Before being accused of unsafe gunhandling remember the gun is on safe and my finger never enters the trigger guard until after the gun is mounted and pointed at the target. This is the same finger movement used to disengage a Garand or Ruger Mini 14. With the Mossberg type safety it is impossible to disengage the safety with your hand in the correct firing position and most shooters will take the gun "off safe" before mounting it to the shoulder in order to reposition the hand for firing.
I am of the opinion that the Mossberg safety is in the worst possible location. It is not on the tang as many state. A double has the safety on the tang. A Mossberg safety is located on the top of the receiver in a location where it can easily be damaged or accidentely be knocked to the "off safe" position.
I have an older police surplus Wingmaster with the short barrel and walnut stock. It's ultra smooth, accurate and reliable. The SG has a solid feel and jammed up the slide only once while I was practicing dry-fire after I short stroked the slide.
Other than that one time, it's been a good companion and house gun.
Other than that one time, it's been a good companion and house gun.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Lessee, "50s technology vs State Of The Art"....
I watched the video from Eric Clapton's Crossroads benefit concert recently. Guitar god after god played their rock, country and blues on Stratocasters, Telecasters and Les Pauls.
Those were first made in the 50s, right? So were those marvelous Fender amps that sang like angels.
Unless one has gone completely to the side of square handguns, the Colt Python and S&W Model 19, 27,25,29, etc still do their part in protecting lives, providing recreation and will for generations with care.
While I admit that the 54 Chevy that was my first vehicle purchase is not the car our Prius or my Cherokee is, many old things from the 50s are still hard to beat.
The 1911 was first conceived a century ago. Many of us still regard it as the ebst defensive pistol yet devised.
Here's what I think about the Nova.
The triggers are horrible.
The stocks are not easily replaceable nor adapted to shooters differing much from the mean.
Forearm rattle is a minor annoyance until one NEEDS to be very, very quiet, whether hunting wabbits or men. Then, a major prob.
The 870 is as adaptable as a Lego set, useful as a SAK, and as American as apple pie.
The defense rests....
I watched the video from Eric Clapton's Crossroads benefit concert recently. Guitar god after god played their rock, country and blues on Stratocasters, Telecasters and Les Pauls.
Those were first made in the 50s, right? So were those marvelous Fender amps that sang like angels.
Unless one has gone completely to the side of square handguns, the Colt Python and S&W Model 19, 27,25,29, etc still do their part in protecting lives, providing recreation and will for generations with care.
While I admit that the 54 Chevy that was my first vehicle purchase is not the car our Prius or my Cherokee is, many old things from the 50s are still hard to beat.
The 1911 was first conceived a century ago. Many of us still regard it as the ebst defensive pistol yet devised.
Here's what I think about the Nova.
The triggers are horrible.
The stocks are not easily replaceable nor adapted to shooters differing much from the mean.
Forearm rattle is a minor annoyance until one NEEDS to be very, very quiet, whether hunting wabbits or men. Then, a major prob.
The 870 is as adaptable as a Lego set, useful as a SAK, and as American as apple pie.
The defense rests....
ReadyontheRight
Member
I'd say it's the "IRON" standard of shotguns.
(Edited to add: Yes, I know the poem is deeper than weaponry, but I still think this first verse makes a great point about weapons. )
(Edited to add: Yes, I know the poem is deeper than weaponry, but I still think this first verse makes a great point about weapons.
)
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ReadyontheRight
Member
Me too. I actually had it out just today to make sure it was ready to roll. I don't shoot it as much as a trap or hunting shotgun, but it's always ready for me if something goes bump in the night. I will probably add a longer magazine onto it someday, but it feels good the way it is.
A well-shot 870 Wingmaster is just plain old perfect.
monkyboy1975
Member
If people would just learn how to operate the crossbolt safety on a Remington you will find it much quicker and easier to operate. Even for left handed shooters. I mount the gun and disengage the safety using the "2nd pad" on my trigger finger. I place the gun back "on safe" by reaching behind the trigger guard with my middle finger.
+1
This is really easy, I've always wondered what the beef was about the 870's safety.
To bad they decided to quit making the Special Field, I really loved that straight stock
+1
This is really easy, I've always wondered what the beef was about the 870's safety.
To bad they decided to quit making the Special Field, I really loved that straight stockinSight-NEO
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I should have known that my "state of the art" quip would become a source of controversy.
It was just an off-the-cuff statement. Not something to be taken so literally.
I was referring to the SuperNova (tactical model, to be exact) not the Nova. They are not the same gun. Benelli, with the SuperNova, has for the most part taken care of the fore-end rattle which existed with the Nova.
In terms of the trigger, well..I have no complaints. But, Benelli has improved this on the SuperNova as well. Either way...I pull trigger..gun goes BOOM!!! Thats all I truly expect out of the trigger when it comes to an HD shotgun.
As far as stocks go, the SuperNova (tactical) allows for 3 different stocks. I have 2 of them (comfortech and suregrip/pistol grip). It took me all of 5 minutes to make the swap from one to the other. The Nova does not allow for this. Now, actually finding these stocks can become a pain unless you know where to look.
For my money, when speaking of a new and currently manufactured sub-$500 shotgun, the Benellis equal and in some respects, surpass most others within that range. Does this make it the BEST..not necessarily. But, it gets tiresome hearing all of the "Benelli bashing" when it is, in fact, a very capable and strong contender in todays market.
This one I have to agree with. But, I do love my Sig Sauer P220..even if it is only 9 months old (a.k.a. "state of the art").
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inSight-NEO
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Well..I did always think it'd be cool to be a Stormtrooper.
Maybe Im just not old-fashioned enough. Either way...you guys have a splendid evening.
AndyJ
Member
NEO- I gotta give you props for holding your ground in a dignified and mature fashion.
I am building up an old school 870p style gun on a vintage Wingmaster base. I will post some pics when I get it done. I bet you like what you see.
I am building up an old school 870p style gun on a vintage Wingmaster base. I will post some pics when I get it done. I bet you like what you see.
inSight-NEO
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I appreciate that. Also, it sounds like you have an interesting project there. Future pics will certainly be welcome!
GlenJ
Member
I had a M500 a year ago and sold it. I just picked up a used 870 Police Magnum with a wood stock for $250. The 870 is a way nicer and better shooting and feeling gun. I would though still get a 500 if I found a good deal on a used one.
The 870 never was the gold standard.
I have one and like it.
My next pump, however, will be an Ithaca if I want an "I love it" gun, or a Mossberg if I want a gun to keep under the seat in case some hunting opportunity pops up. The 500 balances well and feels good, to me, and it's CHEAP but a good gun. The Ithaca feels best to me, but isn't cheap.
Many would say the Model 12 is the gold standard. That may be true, but the things command collector prices these days, so I don't think they're worth the money as a working gun.
The Nova is a plastic shotgun that works. Gold standard, though? Never was, never will be.
I have one and like it.
My next pump, however, will be an Ithaca if I want an "I love it" gun, or a Mossberg if I want a gun to keep under the seat in case some hunting opportunity pops up. The 500 balances well and feels good, to me, and it's CHEAP but a good gun. The Ithaca feels best to me, but isn't cheap.
Many would say the Model 12 is the gold standard. That may be true, but the things command collector prices these days, so I don't think they're worth the money as a working gun.
The Nova is a plastic shotgun that works. Gold standard, though? Never was, never will be.
tenbears
Member
The Remington 870 has a longer proven service record, used with police and military. The only reason the Mossberg has gained popularity is because it was adopted by the military some years ago, but it didn't prove as reliable as the 870.
Mossberg has improved as is reliable, but for the record I would pick the brick of pumps, the 870.
Mossberg has improved as is reliable, but for the record I would pick the brick of pumps, the 870.
SwampWolf
Member
Who says?
AndyJ
Member
Neo-- Here is a pic of the 870 project I promised earlier as it nears completion.
Late 80's Express Magnum. Metal trigger plate and no dimples in the mag tube. American walnut 870p stock set and Remington 2 shot extension with barrel clamp.
Late 80's Express Magnum. Metal trigger plate and no dimples in the mag tube. American walnut 870p stock set and Remington 2 shot extension with barrel clamp.
inSight-NEO
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Andy...I like it!!
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