Is the "cylinder stop" worn out on my 1860?

[emptythemag]

I just stated out with collecting replicas and recently picked up a confederate replica 1860 on gunbroker. After replacing a broken main spring, see I have another problem to fix.

With the barrel removed, I cock back the hammer to the first click. This allows the cylinder to be slid off/on as usual. In this hammer position, the cylinder stop is far down bellow the brass frame...so far so good. On the second click, the cylinder stop pops up out of the receiver, presumably to lock the cylinder into position...on the third click, the cylinder lock sort of stays in the upward position same as the last click.

Here is where the problem occurs. If I run through this sequence without the cylinder, I can very easily press the cylinder lock back down on the third click and it does not pop back up. This is the point when the hammer is back and the pistol is ready to fire...my cylinder is free to spin and so there is no timing at all. I know the cylinder is supposed to be locked tight at this point.

Is my cylinder stop spring shot...is it the spring?

 

[Carl N. Brown]

When I had a similar problem with an 1851 Colt replica, it was the "U"-shape spring that powers the trigger and the cylinder stop. The arm of the spring that kept the cylinder stop up had broken.

The 1873 SAA uses the same design as the 1851 and 1860. The spring can be inspected/replaced by removing the trigger guard. The spring is held in place by a screw through the bottom of the "U". If the cylinder stop is just weak, the screw may have backed out.

Sometimes springs that go through heat treatment end up brittle instead of springy.

 

[denster]

You definetly have a problem with the bolt trigger spring. Make sure the screw holding the spring is tight. If the proplem is still present replace the spring.

 

[WV SCROUNGER]

the bolt spring can have a microscopic hairline rack in it that is not descernable by the naked eye...this will cause it to be weak...it will probably break as you are removing it...It's a cheap fix....might as well buy a couple of them while you are at it..!

 

[emptythemag]

Based on all the replies...thanks by the way...I did some looking. The screw that holds the spring was nice and tight. It seems this problem is two-fold. First, the spring utself is likely weak etc. Secondly, the little symetrical piece that sticks up through the frame is worn to hec on one side. It is almost totally worn down on the side closest to the trigger. Instead of being sort of a dome, it looks like someone filed it on a 45 degree angle on one side, so essentially, only about 50% of the piece is even engaging the cylinder. I'm going to order a new clinder lock/bolt and spring and go from there.

I pushed the worn out part (cylinder lock) up from bellow the frame and it locks, with the assisted pressure from my finger. However, it looks like there may still be some indexing issues, as the hammer is not striking the nipples in the center...not that I expect dead center, but they are noticably off. Hopefully the two new parts will help with this problem as there will be less slop.

 

[denster]

I guess having an extra bolt around is a good thing, but you didn't need it. The bolt is supposed to be sloped that way to engage the notch in the cylinder which is on the periphery of a circle and the notch is not the same height above the frame across the width of the bolt. For gosh sakes just spend a couple of bucks on a new trigger bolt spring and fix the problem.

 

[emptythemag]

I havent bought any parts yet... but it seems my problem is more complicated than just the replacement of a spring.

The brass frame is slightly worn, where the bolt sticks up through. If it were steel, I would be able to run a stitch of weld along it then do a little file work...but since its stretched out brass, thats a different story. The extra play in the frame allows the bolt to wobble side, just slightly side to side, instead of being close to the bolt to steady it.

The wear is minimal, but none the less it's still a problem. I'm going to try to place a little jb weld along the side and see if it can replace a little of the stretched out brass.

JB weld is pretty amazing stuf...the worse that could happen is it wont hold and I'll have to try something else.

 

[Tomahawk674]

How much lateral force can a rotating cylinder apply to the bolt to cause the opening in the frame to expand??

Sounds a bit off to me, but I don't have experience with brass framed guns.

 

[emptythemag]

Its been a while since I visited the forum...turns out I replaced the bolt and the bolt/trigger spring. I had to file just a little off the top of the bolt where it engages the cylinder and now I have pretty decent lock up.

The new hammer was wide enough where it protrudes up through the frame, so it too up much of the wobble room I had with the old hammer.

I agree that there is no way the side force on the bolt could be enough to be marring and bending the brass frame, but there is an area which has some "buggering" to it. I'm now wondering if a former owner didn't wedge a flat tip screw driver down between the bolt and frame for who knows what reason and do just enough damage that I think it should be addressed. I'm going to try the JB-Weld fix tonight and after it sets up tomorrow do just a little filing and see if this tightens it up just a hair.

 

[Captain*kirk]

A fractured "hand" spring can mimic the same symptoms.
(This is the part attached to the hammer that rotates the cylinder)
This just happened to my 1860.
Like you, I was convinced it was the bolt spring, but after disassembly, everything, "down under" looked fine.
It wasn't until I disassembled the whole thing that I found the problem...and it wasn't easily visible then! I confirmed my suspicions by grasping the "?" shaped spring and wiggling...it broke off in my fingers.
Replacement fixed it right up.

 

[madcratebuilder]

The brass frame is slightly worn, where the bolt sticks up through. If it were steel, I would be able to run a stitch of weld along it then do a little file work...but since its stretched out brass, thats a different story. The extra play in the frame allows the bolt to wobble side, just slightly side to side, instead of being close to the bolt to steady it.

You can TIG weld brass, find a good welder and he well fix you up.

 

[BCRider]

Even easier than welding is to open the area up a little with your files and then silver solder in a brass or steel shim. I'd suggest a steel shim so it doesn't tend to mushroom it again. Then just file down the steel shim until it's all good.

This assumes that you can see the brass has been "forged" back and is bulging a bit around the opening. If it is I suspect someone was doing a lot of trigger fanning. That's the only way the cylinder would be indexing fast enough to cause the bolt to deform the frame like that.

If you need to do this sort of stuff I'd also suggest making up a barrel "plug" that you can pass through the barrel and into the cylinder chambers. Use this close fitting but still movable plug to ensure you trim the bolt opening and hand to regulate the cylinder to be in timing with the barrel bore.