Is the M&P just a Sigma in disguise?

[greener]

When I decided to buy a 9mm, just because I didn't have one, I looked at a number of pistols. The M&P seemed to be the best fit for me (feel, price, trigger, construction). I looked at the Sigma and M&P long enough to convince myself that they weren't variants of the same pistol. I also liked the M&P better than the Glocks and XD's I looked at.

Mechanically the pistol has been excellent. I haven't had an ammunition, feed, fire or eject problem in 2500 rounds. I don't see any wear or other problems internally or any finish problems externally. I really like the feel of the pistol when I fire it.

I have not seen the accuracy that others report with the pistol. I believe that has more to do with the shooter than the pistol. When I bought the pistol, it had a problem with the front sight and I shot consistently low and left. Spent a while correcting "shooter" problems before I sent it to S&W. It returned with the "low-left" fixed. I think I may have psyched myself with the pistol and it has taken a while to get over it. Yesterday I was pleased with my results at 15yards and 25 yards with the pistol.

 

[SouthpawShootr]

I have never once seen a Sigma used by a police department.

I was at an LE pistol match several years back and watched a team from a VA PD shoot. They were issued Sigma 9Fs. Now, the guns had lots of trouble on the line. To be fair, I don't know if it was the guns or the ammo. They were shooting American Ammunition - not American Eagle. When I left, members of their dept still had some shooting to do and they were trying to bum some ammo off other officers (this match was pretty much out in the middle of nowhere - at least 20 minutes from the nearest ammunition supply). That might be interpreted to mean that they believed their malfunctions were b/c of the ammo they were shooting. City PD probably made them shoot the match on their dime. I don't remember the name of the department, but I think it was City of Hopewell, VA. I'm sure they're using something else by now.

While I would NEVER disparage a college or university police or security officer

Don't know about WVU, but in VA state-run university police are state certified sworn police officers. They're no different, in the state's view, from city police. During orientation when I started at ODU, we were told that they were state police officers. That's a bit of a white lie, they're state employed LEOs, though, not VASP. more like county deputy sheriffs. ODU's department piggybacks training (academy) with City of Norfolk police. They often serve as backup or even end up handling calls in neighborhoods surround ODU. Unlike so many other universities, ODU borders some very, very bad neighborhoods. As far as budget goes, I don't know how it works. University administration may or may not be involved. If they're smart, they'd keep their grubby little mits out and let the chief submit his budget, which would then be added directly into the total university budget. Last I knew, ODUPD was issued S&W 6906s and 5900 series. But since that time, Norfolk has transitioned to Glock, so ODU may have also.

Back on toipic: I have an M&P 9mm and a Sigma and I'll echo everybody else here. M&P is no dressed up Sigma. It's far superior to the Sigma. S&W engineers may have looked at the Sigma as a starting point, as in "what did we do wrong the last time?," but it's obvious that the end product is totally different. I hope they do well, especially in the LEO market. Like to see Glock sweat a little, though I doubt it would be much given their prominence in so many other areas of the market.

 

[Coronach]

Don't know about WVU, but in VA state-run university police are state certified sworn police officers. They're no different, in the state's view, from city police. During orientation when I started at ODU, we were told that they were state police officers. That's a bit of a white lie, they're state employed LEOs, though, not VASP. more like county deputy sheriffs. ODU's department piggybacks training (academy) with City of Norfolk police. They often serve as backup or even end up handling calls in neighborhoods surround ODU. Unlike so many other universities, ODU borders some very, very bad neighborhoods. As far as budget goes, I don't know how it works. University administration may or may not be involved. If they're smart, they'd keep their grubby little mits out and let the chief submit his budget, which would then be added directly into the total university budget. Last I knew, ODUPD was issued S&W 6906s and 5900 series. But since that time, Norfolk has transitioned to Glock, so ODU may have also.

To be clear, I am aware that many Uni PDs are full-service LE agencies. I'm not trying to run down Uni PDs in general or WVU's in particular. I'm just trying to explain why the usage of the Sigma by a Uni PD is not necessarily an endorsement. In truth, most PDs use criteria other than "what's the very best handgun" in their decisionmaking process, and Uni PDs are worse than your standard PD in this regard. This is because their budgets are tighter, they exist in an anti-gun environment on campus (even if that sentiment ends at the property-line), and they have fuzzy-headed academics holding the purse strings. There is usually a faction that thinks they don't need to be armed at all, so a common compromise is to arm them as poorly as possible. Sometimes this is because people who know nothing about guns think they should be making firearms decisions ("subsonic 9mm? Sounds like a good round for our cops!"), sometimes it's apathy ("I don't want to waste my time thinking about this..."), sometimes it's outright hostility ("If we give them a bad gun, they'll be less likely to use it"). In better situations, they do what was described above...use what other local LE agencies use, so as to piggyback onto them for service/support/training.

Mike

 

[David N]

Jahwarrior,

Thanks for backing me up. I tried the trigger pull on my Sigma and was surprised at how LIGHT it is for a DAO gun.

I based my statement that the Sigma is popular with police departments on what I've read in some gun magazines. I'm sure price was a factor in their decision, just as it was a major factor in my decision to buy one. Many of us simply can't afford $700 -1,000 for a gun we hopefully will never have to use. If you can afford an M&P and like it then by all means enjoy it. I think the Sigma with it's stainless steel barrel and slide is a good buy. Again, I suspect that Smith changed the trigger spring between the first and second versions.