Is the new colt m4 any better than the rest of the milspecs out there?
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Buzznrose
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You want a good warranty on an AR? This is it, and I personally know a SATX LEO who currently has a free replacement rifle because his is being held due to a duty situation.
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Our Warranty
When you get into the top tier rifle companies you have a high performance expectation. At that level, the guns really do work.Sometimes what truly separates...
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silicosys4
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20% cheaper is 20% cheaper for a better rifle. Doesn't change a word of what I just said.
The used market for AR's is so flooded right now I doubt you could get rid of the Colt for any more than the PSA. You are going to take a loss either way.
What makes you think you'll take less of a loss on the Colt? I'd rather buy a PSA for $650 and sell it for $500 than buy a Colt for $950 and sell it for $700.
If your plan is to buy a brand new AR15 then sell it, don't buy an AR15.
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Nobody said there was anything wrong with them. Okay, you used them, continue to use them and they work. Nobody said they didn't. We now know why they're special, to you but no one has explained why they're special in general.
The gov't typically buys guns and everything else from the lowest bidder. The last figure I saw was that they were paying under $400 for an M4.
I wrote the following last night but decided not to post it.
I'm a sixgun man, always have been, always will be. I'm not only heavily financially invested in them but also emotionally. They are what keeps me up at night. I spend gobs of money to have them worked over, sometimes to great expense with hours upon hours of planning before the project ever begins. I have tons of books and magazine articles about them. They are my 'thing'. However, I don't give a rat's ass what manufacturer's name is stamped on them. I really don't. While many place great value on a name and think there is nothing better than a Colt Single Action Army, I don't care. What I care about is the quality of the gun that name is stamped on. If Bubba Gump Single Action Revolver Company built the best sixguns available, I'd buy them. The Colt SAA in this picture is at the bottom because it's the lowest on the totem pole. The other two are not Colt's but they are held in higher regard because they are better guns.
I also have 10 AR's. They are rarely what keeps me up at night but I do like them. I like them because they're great fighting tools but I also like them because I like them. They're cool and interesting and you can hunt with them, those happen to be my only requirements. If I don't care what name is on my sixguns, those guns that I love most, I really don't give a damn what name is on my AR. In fact, I forget what names are stamped on most of them. There is a S&W and a Springfield but the rest I put together with parts from God knows where, because I don't remember. I only remember this one because it was the last. Would having "Colt" stamped on any of the parts make them better? Probably not but they'd be more expensive.
Yeah, it's going to be worth more but you're also paying more up front. The "why" is what is being debated right now.
The why is pretty obvious. The chances of getting a dud from PSA is far higher than from Colt. If the Colt is in your budget, it is always better to spend a little more on a Colt. In most cases, it seems, PSA will stand behind their product but there are reports of fixes out there that are less than optimal and nobody wants to go through all the BS required to ship a rifle in the current environment.
The better option is to select your components and build your own, but that is a thread detour and not everyone has the required tools to pull that off. - Even when building I always use a Colt LPK when available.
The better option is to select your components and build your own, but that is a thread detour and not everyone has the required tools to pull that off. - Even when building I always use a Colt LPK when available.
I’ve carried Colt AR since I was in patrol in the early 90’s. Patrol consisted of state drug task force, surveillance and reconnaissance, illegal hunting, SWAT, etc. Never failed me, and still use it for recreational shooting to this day. LE6920
silicosys4
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i'd like to see some evidence of this. Its a claim that keeps coming up, that seems to be based on anecdotal evidence at best. Colt has its QC issues and puts out its share of malfunctioning guns.
Colt Issues Recall on Some AR-15/M-4 Models :: Guns.com
Connecticut-based Colt's Manufacturing this week announced a voluntary recall after it was found that some of its black rifles may "discharge a second round when the trigger is released when there is a live round in the chamber."
www.guns.com
And to all the military who loved their issued Colt AR's....thank you for your service,
But its not like you had a table full of AR brands to choose from.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
No it isn't, it's literally the title of this thread. We know Colt's cost more, that much is obvious. The question is, are you buying a better gun or are you buying a name? Or is it a bit of both?
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
That is the assumption and also one I would typically make. However, right now this basic Colt upper from Brownells is $740. The completely lowers I saw were $400, while CDNN has a complete AR carbine for $1000.
M4 5.56 UPPER RECEIVER GROUPS | Brownells
Add the Colt legend of reliability to your rifle or build with these complete feature 1/7 RH twist in a chrome lined, button rifled barrel. Available with or without a charging handle, bolt carrier group, and back up sights. All NFA rules apply. N...
www.brownells.com
Surely, being a Colt product, it would have all five star reviews? Nope. Read the one and three star reviews. Complaints about QC like a bent gas tube to weird collector complaints whining about markings. My issue with Colt is that I KNOW you're paying for the Colt name. It's obvious across all their product lines. Corner the collectors and they'll tell you, the name is what they care about and what they know they're paying extra for. The revolver collectors it's always "history". How much history is embodied in a gun that 'just' shipped from a manufacturer that has changed hands more times than I've changed drawers in the last month is beyond me.
Now I wouldn't normally directly compare the two, because I would assume the Colt was better but for $470 you can get a PSA complete kit, with an M-lok free float tube and everything but a stripped lower receiver. There are over 1100 reviews and while there are complaints, the average is still five stars.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
What kind of evidence is that? Colt is the lowest bidder. Do they even have a contract any more? Not everybody wants to work for the government.
trackskippy
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I agree with the "wear it out" part. The investment part....it all depends. Ive bought a number of reasonably priced guns that werent a big deal when I bought them, that turned out to be decent to very good investments down the road.
Anything HK I bought back in the 80's, rifles or handguns, brought 5 to 6 times my investment, and the accessories did just as well.
Anything NFA related........, "to the moon" as Ralph used to say.
Even my old Colt SP1 I paid $225 for new in 74, isnt doing too bad these days. Last I checked, they are going for somewhere over $2K
And that old Colt has more rounds through it now than many people have shot in their lifetime. So, at least the older Colts seem to be fairly well made.
Then again, I have one PSA parts guns on a cheap lower, with many thousands of rounds through it at this point, and it hasnt skipped a beat. And I have a number of PSA parts guns, my experience with them has been the same. No complaints there.
Except your not going to get 500 for your used PSA as one can buy them for less new.
(Pandemic stupidity aside)
Even my old Colt SP1 I paid $225 for new in 74, isnt doing too bad these days. Last I checked, they are going for somewhere over $2K
A hundred dollars and change a decade is good? LOL
silicosys4
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We aren't talking about PSA's budget bottom dollar PSA AR's. We are talking about PSA's top tier "premium" AR upper and enhanced lower that is built with parts comparable or better than a Colt. You aren't going to put together a PSA with their premium parts line anymore for under $500. I've done it, but that was about a decade ago when you could buy a blem premium upper for $300.
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trackskippy
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In the gun world, yea, its pretty good. I bought a lot guns back then that didnt do anywhere near as well.
I dont buy guns as an investment, I buy them to shoot, and prefer to shoot the snot out of them and try and wear them out. Im always happy if I get a decent trade or buck for them when I go to get rid of them. If I break even, I consider myself very lucky. I rarely "make out" though.
And considering I got to play with them, and shoot the snot out of them, I always looked at it as a reasonable/equitable trade-off.
243winxb
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https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/AD0822734 Chromium plated bores seem to last longer, back in 1970's when i had my M16A1 carbine.
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Military trials matter. Would you seriously trust any PSA to have a MRBS greater than a M4, which had to pass those trials to get the contract? Good luck with that. 60 militaries around the world have contracted with Colt to produce their weapons. These are not boutique ARs, but they are tools that will perform under adverse conditions and high round counts.
They are all bottom dollar, sorry.
Yet you were the one bragging about money gains spread over 50 yrs.
silicosys4
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Thats just simply nonsense. The parts list I gave has specs that are identical to or enhancements that are better than Colt. Unless you are claiming Colt AR15's are also bottom dollar...which kind of blows the whole "Colt value" argument out of the water.
I'm beginning to think you have a bias against PSA that isn't supported by any known facts.
trackskippy
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At todays rate of exchange and what they are going for these days, Id still be happy, and Id still be ahead. Works for me. Better than a lot of other things.
InTheSwamp
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Spikes reminds me of the movie Arachnophobia...LMT is Boss!
RetiredUSNChief
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"Mil-spec" does not automatically mean "lowest bidder". Not by a long shot.
What the term means is that there are a set of specifications to which any given part, component, equipment, panel, etc. must be built to in order to be acceptable.
If they're not built to those specifications, then they're not acceptable. It's as simple as that.
In the business world, that's how things are done. They busy don't call it "mil-spec" for civilian applications. But it DOES exist.
An automotive company contacts out parts and components to other contractors and they provide those products based on the specifications set firth by the automobile manufacturer.
Surgical tools and equipment are also done the same way.
What a company does not specify (or QA test for) is where problems lie.
They are, in fact, engineering and contract requirements which are in evidence throughout the industry.
What the term means is that there are a set of specifications to which any given part, component, equipment, panel, etc. must be built to in order to be acceptable.
If they're not built to those specifications, then they're not acceptable. It's as simple as that.
In the business world, that's how things are done. They busy don't call it "mil-spec" for civilian applications. But it DOES exist.
An automotive company contacts out parts and components to other contractors and they provide those products based on the specifications set firth by the automobile manufacturer.
Surgical tools and equipment are also done the same way.
What a company does not specify (or QA test for) is where problems lie.
They are, in fact, engineering and contract requirements which are in evidence throughout the industry.
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