Is the SOCOM M1A the real deal or a marketing gimmick?

[desidog]

It is NJ legal - my Loaded came from there via an FFL.

You can either get an aftermarket stock with rails for ninja gear, or you can get a rail from Fulton that replaces the forward sling point and has short picatinny rail for a pod or light or laser.

I'm a big fan of the M1A; and the current move by the Army and Marines to resurrect the M14 for designated marksmen's long range work is definitive proof that this system is anything but obsolete.

The .308 is well suited for shooting distances; but for CQB i think it's overkill - a lot of noise, flash, and wasted powder when shot from a short (16") barrel. Plus, its a powerful round, and will pass through your target and a couple of your neighbor's houses if loosed in that direction....you light that thing off in your hallway and you'll be blind, deaf, and in need of a spatula to get the squishy stuff off the ceiling - there's many other options for CQB/HD; but for paper at 100yds i'd say DO IT...but i'd only go as short as the Scout.

 

[joshuarwright]

I'm new to shooting and all but I have never seen the need to comment on the difference between 3 MOA and 1 MOA in a gun like the SOCOM, it's not meant for sniping, if it was it would be a bolt action or at least not have a short barrel. It is a good gun for what it's made for.

As I see it, whether it gets 1 or 3 or 5 MOA at 100-200 yards it's all a head shot and it's all certainly a center mass shot. None of which is anything to sneeze at.

 

[ForneyRider]

You can get a Garand, albeit 30-06 and not 308, from CMP for about 600$. A new one is about $1100.

A handful of guys showed up one day at the range and did an informal match. They had some decent groups at 100 yards.

The Springfield M1A Super National Match is the high dollar accurized rifle with Krieger or Douglas barrel. It is several thousand.

The Loaded is the 1step up from bottom model. You can get blued or stainless with walnut or fibreglass stock.

The SOCOM II and SOCOM 16 are short barreled. One has a picatinny rail front end.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

I believe so. The "Substantially Identical" clause is absolutely ridiculous and written by people who simply have no idea.

For example Colt AR-15 is illegal. Even if it's just a fixed stock one with no bayonet lug/flash hider and 15 round magazines. But a Bushmaster XM-15, or any other brand AR-15 with no bayonet lug/flash hider and 15 round mags is perfectly legal. If you could take a Colt AR-15, take every single piece of the gun except the lower, and slap it onto any other brand of AR-15 lower receiver and......you're good to go /facepalm

Another fun fact only 3 states hate bayonet lugs, NJ, NY, and CT

You can get a Garand, albeit 30-06 and not 308, from CMP for about 600$. A new one is about $1100.

Garand is illegal, he lives in NJ But he can have a post '94 M1A

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

Oh and Frank, your gun is absolutely aweesome! I love that wood stock man....

 

[Robert]

I have shot my friends SOCOM. It was a fun rifle, but I still like my FAL better. I am not too worried about the holes touching as long as I can hit what I am aiming at at most ranges I am happy. Most "inaccurate" rifles are more accurate than the person shooting them.

 

[Shadow Man]

Most "inaccurate" rifles are more accurate than the person shooting them.

How very, very true. That's my usual argument about AK's.

 

[austin360]

My SOCOM shoots 1.5 moa with surplus ammo. I love it...

 

[bullturkey]

I had a socom and did not like it. The front sight is too wide for any serious accuracy past 100yds. Do not even think of firing this weapon inside of an inclosed space without hearing protection ( I know- always wear hearing protection, I agree but in a desperate situation you may not have time to put it on) and the worst part is the dis-assembly, getting the oprod off mine was a task of Biblical proportions. I would never own one again. and I like the m14/m1a rifle.

 

[skipbo32]

choping off the 22" barrel of the 7.62mm m14 <deleted non-THR comment (Sam)>completly defeats the purpose of the calibur and is a molestation of a perfectly desiegned battle rifle. the socom is a marketing gimic that is sold to the market that is effected by the AR fad. why spend good money on .308 ammo and shoot it out of a 16" barrel? the powder doesnt even have time to completly burn up as the bullet is coming out of the bore. if you want a bush rifle, get an AR or mini 14. the only reason i can think of someone wanting a 16" M1A is to hog hunt while toting their gun in a jeep or somthing like that. even then, i would rather have a full length barrel with a folding stock. socoms have their place. i know the seals use them. i just think its a waste of a great design and a great round.

 

[mini14gb]

(Deleted insults and hot air. <Sam>) The SOCOM 16 is plain and simple to understand guys. Its a CLOSE QUARTERS BATTLE GUN. GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. IT FILLS A ROLL ON THE MODERN BATTLE FIELD. Its not supposed to stack dimes on paper (niether was a Tommy gun) but more capable of slamming through walls and car doors than a Tommy gun. I use my SOCOM 16 at my cabin as a close quarters Grizzly defense gun with a much greater ability for follow up shots than a shotgun. 200gr. Partitions at close range is powerful. Now don't go telling me its to small for Grizzlies, before the world went magnum crazy 30-06 and .308 were killing Grizzlies in Alaska for god sakes.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Why do you need a 16in Socom? Clearing badies out of oil rigs?

I love the 21in version, I like my battle rifles long and heavy. They are supposed to feel like a rifle, with lots of wood and steel, not a plastic toy like the AR.


OTOH if you have to enter small rooms and double tap some terrorists a Socom 16 mounted in a Sage EBR stock with an Eotech and vertical grip would be a very hard hitting combo.


Either way the M1A is one badass rifle, you can't go wrong.

 

[wcwhitey]

mini14gb, Slow down brother and don't call any Vet out! Especially a Shipmate that more than likely has more time with a real M14 than most. The exception being some of our more recent Vets who have put the re-circulated Navy M14's back into service.

My time in the Navy, 1984 - 1993 I have handled my share of M14's. The Navy's arsenal consisted of M14's, re-barreled .308 Garands, a few Thompsons and cases of new in wrap WWII era 1911's. A time warp of sorts. No M16's or 9mm's. I can also guarantee that at least in my case they were shot from more than 100 feet off the bow. Add to that in meters X10 and you get my picture.

I have no problem that you love your SOCOM 16, I am glad for you. Just do me a favor and don't trash another poster for his opinion. Especially someone who has served his country, that is just not High Road. Bill

 

[Sam1911]

Bill has some wisdom to share regarding High Road behavior.

This subject, for reasons that boggle the mind, is highly emotionally charged for some members. If you feel too angry to post civilly, or you have trouble expressing yourself without taking the conversation down a level -- please reserve comment.

Thank you.

 

[mini14gb]

Sorry to the other board members. I didn't think that Navy's comments calling the SOCOM's a POSERS gun was very straight either. I served in the 101st Airborne (Air Assault) Division with the 1/187th Infantry (Rakkasans). So a Navy guy calling SOCOM owners posers pissed me off. I didn't feel like a POSER when I was going out on patrol in Iraq or kicking in gates and doors. Not to mention that I would have rather had a SOCOM than my issued M-4. Again I apologize to the board.

 

[mini14gb]

Apologies to NAVY as well.

 

[wcwhitey]

Thank you for your service! We also value your experience and opinion. Bill

 

[VA27]

It's a nice, handy little gun. A little heavy for it's size, but that just makes it very shootable. The compensator works so well that recoil/muzzle jump is less than with the full sized guns, about on a par with the AR15. Muzzle blast is dependent on what ammo you use. I have some HSM Police loads that put out a fireball that impresses everyone who sees it. I like it.

 

[Sam1911]

Thank you mini14gb.

It sometimes is also useful to take note of the date something was posted. Navyretired1's comments were posted Feb 5th (over two months ago) and that often means that a heated rebuttal is generally wasted because most folks will have forgotten the argument and moved on.

Also, he was a pretty brand new member at the time and probably wouldn't say something quite so ... indelicate ... now that he's had a few more months to settle into the culture here.

Good to see gentlemanly conduct prevail!

 

[skipbo32]

for all you youtubers out there...nutnfancy just did a review on the socom II. his reviews are very well thought out and accurate in my opinion. anyone that has questions of the POU of this gun should check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLMV8n_tW-A

 

[DRYHUMOR]

I have a full size.

I wouldn't mind trying a shorty, but until then I won't comment on it's merits or de merits.

As far as marketing ploy. Ya got to figure, if manufacturer develops a certain model- yes- they are marketing. If the model continues to sell, then yes- it has merit. If it didn't, they would discontinue the model, as it would become unprofitable.

Firearms often fill niches. And, are often purchased with a planned use in mind.......

 

[boricua9mm]

In my experience shooting SOCOMs, the biggest thing holding hem back is that HUGE front night sight. Swap it out for a NM front sight post and watch the groups shrink.

The rifle is compact and has much less recoil than you would expect. In a 16" .308 carbine, it would probably be my choice. If you are looking to replace a more accurate rifle with an M1A, then maybe a full size (22") would be a better choice.

That being said, SAI has had some very misleading marketing behind this rifle and their M1As in general. You should buy one because they are good rifles, not because you see a picture of an alleged soldier dragging one through the mud in a magazine ad.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

My understanding from this months American Rifleman that M-14s are being pulled and rebuilt with match barrels, adjustable stocks and new scopes and improved mounts for use in Afganistan by our Marines Designated Marksman Program.

Actually, I believe that is the Army that is using them in that role - and primarily because the M14 is available. They just increased the number of rifles from 1 per squad to 2 per squad. Last time I looked, the Marines were still using 5.56mm rifles for the Designated Marksman program.

As for the M14, it seems to me that its big strengths are great iron sights, great trigger, and reliability. It seems to me that the SOCOM sacrifices the sights and reliability (shortening an original gas system almost always causes problems) and keeps only the trigger. It also comes pretty close to keeping the weight of the original M14, which doesn't strike me as a plus - 8.9lbs unloaded and without optics or other gear.

It seems to me that if you want a 16" semi-auto .308 for CQB, you'd be better off with an FAL, an HK91K, an SR25EM or practically any one of the more modern designs that have better ergonomics, less weight and faster magazine changes.

IT FILLS A ROLL ON THE MODERN BATTLE FIELD

Does it? Is there a role on the battlefield for a short-barrelled .308 CQB rifle? Which militaries are fielding a SOCOM (or any other short-barrelled .308 for that matter) on the modern battlefield?

 

[Carter]

I've shot my friends socom a lot. He almost never cleans it and it always runs flawlessly with cheap Russian lacquered ammo. But, it takes away the advantage of the .308, in my opinion. It gets decent accuracy, but the kick is way more pronounced than the full length version, which makes fast follow shots trickier.

 

[jeepguy]

i would look at the scout/squad best of both worlds. i just bought a used ss loaded but if i bought new it would be 18" model. i think you will be happy with any of the m14/m1a's.