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Is the tide turning against 2nd Amendment rights?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by usmarine0352_2005, Apr 22, 2012.

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  1. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

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    Here is a recent story of Castle Doctrine out of Wisconsin. Legislatures in Wisconsin have been attempting to repeal Castle Doctrine there. However, I think Castle Doctrine worked exactly as it should in this case. The home owner encounters an intruder in his house, it's not his job to ask, 'Are you a murderer, rapist, only here to rob me and beat me up?'

    The home owner has the right to defend himself, his family and his home. However, a lot of anti-2nd Amendment folks don't feel that way.


    There have been many pro-2nd Amendment wins lately, but now, after the Treyvon Martin shooting has the tide turned?



    http://www.startribune.com/local/148402995.html



    Wisconsin made big strides with their enactment of CCW this year. However that was January and that was well before the Treyvon Martin shooting. It is most likely too soon to tell, but this is what is currently happening.



    What we have seen recently are:



    1.) Diane Feinstein stifles the National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act (H.R. 822, S. 2188 and S. 2213)


    2.) Scrutiny and attempts to repeal Stand Your Ground laws.


    3.) Scrutiny and attempts to repeal Castle Doctrine laws.





    So, do you think the tide has turned against 2nd Amendment rights?


    .
     
  2. 12131

    12131 Member

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    It's a constant and eternal battle, back and forth, as far as I'm concerned.The commie gun grabbers will always attempt to capitalize on gun related deaths, whether justified or not, to advance their agenda. It is our duty to meet them head on every step of the way to preserve our 2nd Amendment right.
     
  3. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    There is a big difference between the tide turning and the battle ongoing.
     
  4. 12131

    12131 Member

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    "Has the tide turned?"
    Have we lost any grounds? No.
     
  5. husbandofaromanian

    husbandofaromanian Member

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    I am still feeling cozy and comfortable due to Heller & McDonald. It's like Roe V. Wade, they will never go away. I also live in a good state for guns (TN). One last thing that makes me comfortable is Bill Clinton lecturing that Democrats lost the Congress due to the Assault Weapons Ban.

    Politicians are learning that gun people become single issue voters when we feel we may loose our gun rights. We put everything else on the back burner and vote pro gun. This makes us a political power.

    I have always been afraid that if we push the 2nd too hard we will cause a constitutional convention and get the 2nd watered down.

    These are good times to be a firearms enthusiast. My only real complaint with the firearm laws is silencers being an NFA controlled device. Hearing loss with shooters is a very real public safety issue. I own two silencers and I would never consider taking my children shooting without them (I make them wear hearing protection also).
     
  6. Ragnar Danneskjold

    Ragnar Danneskjold Member

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    Like Plessy v. Ferguson?

    Give the Left a few more Supreme Court seats, and you'll be a lot less comfortable.
     
  7. fxstchewy

    fxstchewy Member

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    Shes always going against 2A, nothing new with that.
     
  8. 357 Terms

    357 Terms Member

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    I am confused; I agree with the first part of the sentence, but I have seen nothing involving the Martin case that has influenced any legislation at all.

    As to Wisconsin; there are many rsidents there dancing in the streets as to their expanded 2nd amnd. rights.
     
  9. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    The media, and the liberals continue to use events they determine newsworthy (like Trayvon Martin) to promote more gun control laws. However, I think the general public is seeing through these attempts as there are more and more first time gun buyers and women are buying guns and shooting.
     
  10. husbandofaromanian

    husbandofaromanian Member

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    I am waiting for for liberals (true, conscientiousness liberals) and the ACLU to accept the 2nd as a basic civil right just like the rest of the bill of rights. I'm am not being sarcastic. I believe that this change of heart will happen.

    Can you only imagine how the political landscape would change if the left accepted the 2nd?
     
  11. Milamber

    Milamber Member

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    Our whole legal system needs a redo. We have laws that overlap and turn simple misdemeanors into felony's. We have laws that are redundant and nonsensical.

    Two quotes one by my favorite judge come to mind.

    The House of Commons starts its proceedings with a prayer. The chaplain looks at the assembled members with their varied intelligence and then prays for the country.

    -- Lord Denning

    Law is a bottomless pit, it is a cormorant, a harpy, that devours
    everything.
    (John Arbuthbit (1667-1735) Law is a Bottomless Pit, 1712)
     
  12. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    As others have said, media attempts to vilify 2A are part of the same tide we've been facing since before I was born. This has just given them another perceived wedge issue. Whether this wedge will have any lasting consequence remains to be seen.

    Part of the recent increased drum beat may be a backlash to Heller and also an attempt to provide a distraction to draw the focus away from the lack of economic recovery as the November election nears.
     
  13. 303tom

    303tom member

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    "Has the tide turned ?"
    NO, but it`s going to get worst if we don`t get shed of Obama in Nov...............
     
  14. CajunBass

    CajunBass Member

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    You weren't around in 1968 were you? You want to talk about things looking bleak? Those days were BLEAK.
     
  15. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    Antis have an advantage in that when somebody gets shot, it can be made into big news, and the "big" media are all about helping the anti agenda along. There simply is nothing "newsworthy" in the fact that hundreds of thousands of American civilians carry regularly without incident and that by doing so--or even by potentially doing so--they are helping to deter crime.

    It doesn't matter to the antis that 99+% of the people who have legally acquired one or more handguns will never shoot anyone. To them, a shooting happens only because the laws make it too easy for a person to get or use a handgun; every shooting becomes fuel for their engine.

    Case in point: since the Martin shooting (which most of us wouldn't even know about if not for the supposed racial angle that's been brought into play), the pressure is on to reexamine stand your ground laws, even though it isn't at all clear whether SYG even applies. If SYG can be made to look like vigilante justice, think the antis, we can make it go away.

    Law-abiding handgun owners must be diligent. We are all potential ambassadors the the RKBA; therefore, we must be mindful of our words and actions, because the antis won't rest until it is impossible for the average American citizen to carry or even own a handgun.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2012
  16. jon_in_wv

    jon_in_wv Member

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    The only way the tide is going to truly turn in favor of our 2nd amendment rights is when we as a people make it a true priority. Everyone is rallying behind Romney, who is really weak on the 2nd amendment, and some people are even supporting Obama because he hasn't done anything YET. If Obama gives us 2 or 3 more liberal Supreme Court judges like the ones he gave us already you can kiss your rights goodbye.
     
  17. Plan2Live

    Plan2Live Member

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    In my opinion we have passed the tipping point on Second Amendment rights as well as other important political and social issues. The game is over and we lost. It's only a matter of time before we are given our new reality all around.
     
  18. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    This much is true: after the Treyvon Martin shooting attempts have been made to turn the tide. As more facts come out, the initial story sold by the ambulance-chasers has been shown false. Tide is turning, but is it turning against Martin. The Tide has crested and started to ebb.

    "Lawyers for Travyon's family have insisted that Zimmerman tracked down and killed the Miami Gardens teenager because he was black." (Orlando Sentinel). It was described as a cold-blooded murder motivated by racial hatred. Photos of a 12 yearold Trayvon were shown, along side a 2005 photo of Zimmerman in an orange jump suit. Outrage was carefully orchestrated, as with the Tawana Brawley and Duke Lacrosse rape allegations. Then at the peak, bothersome facts began to creep into the debate when and where debate was allowed, like a wet blanket on fiery feelings.

    Trayvon was not the 12 year old kid in the pictures, but a 17 yr old, 6'1", 150 lbs, suspended from high school for having a baggie with pot residue and a pipe in his book bag, who presented himself as a gangsta wannabe on Twit; photos emerged of Zimmerman's bloody head taken by a neighbor 3 minutes after the shooting before Zimmerman was cleaned up by rescue squad medics, details came out that Zimmerman's 2005 arrest was for intervening against two plainsclothes alcohol beverage control officers on behalf of a friend who was pinned against the wall, an obstructing officer offense hardly the potential cop killing blown up by the media. Even Nancy Grace started to back off Friday.

    My question is, is the Trayvon-Zimmerman hulabalu the last gasp of the anti-2A, anti-SD movement? According to Gallup Polls, in the 1950's there was 75% support for banning handguns, today it is 25%. I suspect the opposite side is desperate. They cannot win by thinking on facts, so they hope to win by playing on emotions. It is a last desperate flailing about for a rabble rousing cause.
     
  19. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Member

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    Two or three? We lose one conservative supreme court judge and we are truly in a heap of trouble.

    If re-elected, Obama may just have the opportunity to replace another justice on the court...
     
  20. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    Umm... No. We have more ground than ever. We have near nationwide ccw and ability to own silencers. I consider that significant progress.

    I think once this current generation of politicians passes (the 60+ y/o block who is in part responsible for the most heinous of gun control laws), it will be pretty smooth sailing.
     
  21. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    I take it then you're ready to sell your guns to whomever still believes the RKBA will not go down to defeat? That way you won't be caught out when the Federal thugs come around for them all.
     
  22. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother Member

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    I think its too early to tell if the tide is turning against the 2A. You often see a media uproar after unfortunate events (i.e. Giffords shooting, VA Tech shooting, Columbine shooting), but ultimately at the national level, the situation returns to the status quo. Undoubtedly, we'll see some new anti-CCW legislation introduced at the state level by liberal lawmakers in safe districts, they will want to grab some headlines. However, the true test will be to see if those bills pass and if it becomes a trend nationwide.

    I tend to doubt that the tide has turned, and as posters above have pointed out, even if the pendulum began swinging in the opposite direction, we have made such monumental strides that we could lose a lot of ground and still be in a much better place politically than we were in 1968 or 1994. Of course, that doesn't mean that we can afford to be complacent, I will be sending some extra cash to the NRA and my state's CCW org, because we will need to fight the anti-CCW push that is coming, but if we defeat this initial wave that is coming, I believe the anti-2A gains will be minimal.
     
  23. FROGO207

    FROGO207 Member

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    If you look at all the NEW firearms owners that have just recently purchased those said firearms my belief is the tide is turning FOR 2nd Amendment acceptance by more mainstream citizens. There are more instances that play out needing to protect oneself from harm so the common sense thing to do is learn how to protect yourself. Also ownership of firearms go hand in hand with that basic premise. So more taxpayers are waking up to the facts that the local/federal authorities are not bound by law to continuously protect you the individual citizen, therefore personal safety is indeed the responsibility of the individual.
     
  24. Old krow

    Old krow Member

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    I don't know that the tide has turned or it hasn't. We've gained a lot of ground in some areas, but it also appears that we're losing ground in some areas as well.

    I live in a very gun friendly state, CCs are Shall Issue, there's the Castle Doctrine, and I can have a suppressor. In that sense of it I think that we're gaining ground.

    Where I think that we're losing ground is that the 2nd is becoming more and more of a partisan issue. There is very little "middle ground" left for someone that is a moderate (of any kind really) or someone who is, say, a social liberal and fiscal conservative. This is easily seen in polls where slightly over 20% of the people polled did not believe that the 2nd applies to civilians or think that civilian ownership should be restricted, yet they're still getting enough votes to push, or attempt to push, these laws and remain in power.

    For the most part what is happening is the 2nd is being tied to issues like marital rights, marijuana, corporate taxes, foreign policy, and health care. Until that trend is reversed I believe that we're losing ground in that aspect.

    Independents typically choose the POTUS and it seems like we're making it awful hard for an Independent to vote pro-gun without disregarding a handful of other Rights.
     
  25. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

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    Two Separate Subjects

    Do not confuse 2A issues--which pertain to the right to keep and bear arms--with laws concerning the use of force.

    "Castle doctrine" laws come into play whetter a resident kills or injures a criminal intruder with a firearm, a kitchen knife, a nine iron, or, as in the case of a famous home invasion case in Massachusetts, a gum ball machine.

    When the framers of the Constitution drafted the Bill of Rights, a man's home was his castle, but the duty to retreat in the out of doors, when retreat was safely possible, existed in all of the first thirteen states.
     
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