Is the tide turning against 2nd Amendment rights?

[Neverwinter]

Case in point: since the Martin shooting (which most of us wouldn't even know about if not for the supposed racial angle that's been brought into play), the pressure is on to reexamine stand your ground laws, even though it isn't at all clear whether SYG even applies. If SYG can be made to look like vigilante justice, think the antis, we can make it go away.

As long as Zimmerman doesn't get off due to SYG, then the rest of us should be safe. Otherwise, the desire to remove SYG as an enabler of vigilante justice will be there.

 

[Nushif]

I don't think it's indicative of anything in the grand scheme of things, but where I live gun culture has been flourishing, with people of all stripes getting into either shooting or gun ownership and even staunch "scaredycats" (not antis) wanting to at least *try* even the scariest of full autos and big caliber guns.

Guns are losing their mystique around these parts, at least. And that enables more and more lenient laws, I'd like to think.

 

[DesertFox]

Looks like if you owe back taxes, castle doctrine could be the least of one's worries.

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/2044...al_Of_The_Right_To_Own_A_Firearm_-_Video.html

Yikes...

 

[CajunBass]

In my opinion we have passed the tipping point on Second Amendment rights as well as other important political and social issues. The game is over and we lost. It's only a matter of time before we are given our new reality all around.

Since you're already surrendered, would you please just get out of the way, and give those of us still in the fight more room to maneuver.

It's not so much that we mind carrying you, it's prying your fingers off everything you grab trying to hold us back that hurts.

 

[Tomcat47]

I do not think the Tide has Turned on 2A! And I believe it is actually becoming stronger......

However, the MEDIA is definitely ensuring that the perception that The 2A Is losing support is front and center!

 

[Plan2Live]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan2Live
In my opinion we have passed the tipping point on Second Amendment rights as well as other important political and social issues. The game is over and we lost. It's only a matter of time before we are given our new reality all around.

I take it then you're ready to sell your guns to whomever still believes the RKBA will not go down to defeat? That way you won't be caught out when the Federal thugs come around for them all.

Nope, not at all. First of all, all of my previously owned weapons were lost in a boating accident so I don't have any for the Federal Thugs to take. Second, I still strongly support Second Amendment rights. However, for the most part we have lost the PR battle. Guns are viewed by the mainstream media and schools as horrible things. Hearing that message repeated over and over eventually turns the middle-grounders towards the anti-gun side just like any other well orchestrated propaganda campaign. I hope I'm wrong but based on what I see and hear on a daily basis we have lost the PR campaign. Look at California, you call that winning?

 

[JLDickmon]

The Feds will get wise to the "boating accident" after about the third guy..

 

[SabbathWolf]

Do not confuse 2A issues--which pertain to the right to keep and bear arms--with laws concerning the use of force.

"Castle doctrine" laws come into play whetter a resident kills or injures a criminal intruder with a firearm, a kitchen knife, a nine iron, or, as in the case of a famous home invasion case in Massachusetts, a gum ball machine.

When the framers of the Constitution drafted the Bill of Rights, a man's home was his castle, but the duty to retreat in the out of doors, when retreat was safely possible, existed in all of the first thirteen states.

It did?
Do you have a link to that or something?
Sounds interesting, and something I admittedly never knew about.

 

[awgrizzly]

I do not think the Tide has Turned on 2A! And I believe it is actually becoming stronger......

However, the MEDIA is definitely ensuring that the perception that The 2A Is losing support is front and center!

That's correct and that's the point. Those who would undermine the second amendment can only do so with perception, because perception can be manipulated to replace reality. Eventually it will become accepted by the majority that the second amendment is a bad thing protecting bad people who want to own bad guns. Left unchecked, over time the campaign of misinformation and division will succeed and we will appear to be the aggressors.

 

[Neverwinter]

Eventually it will become accepted by the majority that the second amendment is a bad thing protecting bad people who want to own bad guns. Left unchecked, over time the campaign of misinformation and division will succeed and we will appear to be the aggressors.

And yet some try to use the 2nd amendment in that way to protect aggressors. They are selling the rest of us out.

 

[JustinJ]

Most gun people will be voting for a candidate who signed an assault weapons ban for his state as governor. The other candidate's AG has stated the administration supports a permament nation wide assault weapons ban. That has me concerned.

 

[Sniper66]

Disappointing yet not surprising that such articles "report" on events they believe point to the misuse of home protection laws, but breathe nary a word about similar events that have saved the home owners life. Nor do they bother to mention the millions of gun owners who move through the days, months and years without harming a soul, but feel better for having the privilege. We must and will continue to fight for our right to keep and use firearms and protect ourselves.

 

[mljdeckard]

Keep in mind, we have passed a lot of these laws in a lot of these states with most people being completely oblivious. We used the opposition's tactics against them, passing laws in times and places that they weren't all that concerned about at the time. One prosecutor in WI complaining about it because of one case really doesn't raise my eyebrows much.

But what does concern me is the possibility of a slow news summer. If there is nothing else to talk about for the next few months, a lot of people who wouldn't have cared heretfore will be out signing petitions and such about these laws. I would be highly surprised if any SYG or castle laws get changed, but a lot of people who previously had no idea about them might have found a reason to oppose them.

 

[Coop45]

LOL!! We can all sit around and be afraid of the monsters under the bed. Boo!! Did I scare you?

 

[Romeo 33 Delta]

In Wisconsin, you have to understand that the Democrats (Larson is but one) are "all in" with the attempted recall of Gov. Walker. It's a alliance of National Democrat politics and Big Labor, spending 10s of millions of dollars to remove Walker and certain members of the Legislature because they managed to get public sector unions under control and thereby let local school boards and municipalities control their costs. Personally, I think the Dems are going to ultimately be BIG losers in this. I don't see any circumstances where either our Concealed Carry or Castle Doctrine are in any danger. The Dems and media tried to make this referenced case into a cause celeb, painting the dead perp and some sort of angelic personage ... but nobody's particularly buying that. His record was not spotless and he did break into an enclosed, locked porch in the middle of the night and the homeowner did challenge him. Rather than coming out of hiding with his hands raised, he reacted in a manner that the shooter deemed threatening and it was ruled a justifiable shooting. Again, it's just the typical, whining, Liberals and anti-gun crowd making noise because that's all they have!

I have to add that you've all read that Wisconsin has just issued it's 100,000th Concealed Carry permit. To the best of my knowledge, since CC went into effect this past November, we have had 2 CC-related shootings. The first was in a supermarket in Milwaukee, JUSTIFIABLE and the other the above case in Slinger, also JUSTIFIABLE. I'd say that's a darned good start and it sure isn't Dodge City ... just decent folks protecting themselves from bad guys!

Moderators, the only reason I injected "politics" into this post is a result of "politics" being the sole reason for this dust up in the first place.

 

[gc70]

Is the tide turning against 2nd Amendment rights?

Maybe we should differentiate the reported tide from the actual tide.

The media keeps reporting that gun ownership is declining. Anti-gun reporting was new and fashionable many years ago, but such reports later became standardized in much of the media. Today, a lot of anti-gun reporting is simply a "safe" and lazy way for the media to use an established 'template' to fill print space or broadcast time.

NICS checks show that firearms sales have been increasing for years and have recently been increasing at record rates. Anecdotally, there are many posts on this and other gun forums about the flood of new gun owners. Personally, I have not been to a gun store in months when the counters were not lined with newbies shopping for guns.

As long as Zimmerman doesn't get off due to SYG, then the rest of us should be safe. Otherwise, the desire to remove SYG as an enabler of vigilante justice will be there.

The current noise about SYG laws may not be what it seems.

The NAACP is against SYG laws: "In the months ahead the NAACP and our allies in the civil rights community will continue to take these issues on as well as the urgent need to repeal stand your ground laws."

Or the NAACP is for SYG laws: "The NAACP’s Jacksonville chapter has thrown its support behind a woman who will be sentenced Monday in a shooting where she claimed self-defense against an abusive husband under the state’s Stand Your Ground law."

It appears that the NAACP may be less concerned with the SYG laws than with who benefits from them in specific cases.

 

[JustinJ]

The media keeps reporting that gun ownership is declining.

I've read this claim on some gun blogs but have failed to see a mainstream media article about it. However, the gun blogs claiming gun ownership is increasing reference total NICs checks which proves nothing but that more guns are buying purchased with no differentiation between first gun purchasers and gun owners.

 

[Skribs]

I'm guessing that those reports of NICS checks include new names on the checks and old names. Pretty sure they keep records of who's had a check performed.

 

[Millwright]

A most cogent comment Kleanbore ! >MW

 

[Art Eatman]

As a generality, the mediahcrities are anti-gun. It's worse now than during the Bush years, given the position of the present administration.

However, as pointed out many times in references to NICS checks, there are more guns being sold, more new owners in evidence and more CHLs issued as well as a growth in firearms trainers and students. The demands on Ruger have had them shut off taking new orders for a while.

While the media can affect some people's views, they don't actually represent any sort of anti-gun groundswell on the part of the public at large.

And so enough of this for now...