Is there a maximum legal length for pistol barrels?

[Sam1911]

don't forget if you go the NFA route that you will have to notify the BATFE and get their permission if you plan on going out of state with the NFA firearm for a hunt.

Another point to consider is that some states prohibit posession of SBRs and SBSs. Would they have a problem with your gun --registered as an SBR, if it was only in true pistol or rifle configuration while it was in the state? I don't know. The strictest interpretation would say that your gun's status is now as a SBR, and thus prohibited, regardless of current physical configuration.

-Sam

 

[Legionnaire]

Great link, Sam; thanks. Never really thought about going the NFA route before, but sounds like it might be a winner ... despite the expense and extra hassle.

 

[HOME DEPOT GEORGE]

How does Mech-Tech get away with selling the carbine conversion kits?

 

[Sam1911]

How does Mech-Tech get away with selling the carbine conversion kits?

The same way T/C does. There's nothing illegal about taking a pistol and making a long-barreled rifle out of it.

What would be illegal (in the ATF's eyes at the very least) would be to then take that rifle and put a short barrel on it (again). That would constitute a firearm "made from a rifle." (Which could only be a SBR)

I haven't yet looked, but I'm guess that MechTech takes the same approach as T/C in their owners' manuals: "Don't ask, don't tell.

Someone last night pointed out a dark irony:

Having a Mech Tech carbine installed on your 1911 frame -- and also still owning the original 5" 1911 barrel -- may constitue "Constructive Possession" of an unregistered SBR.

Scary thought, eh?

-Sam

 

[DT Guy]

When the laws are too complex for an honest man to follow, the laws need to be changed.

We're going to have to wake up, and soon, or relatively autonomous 'agencies' will be the dominant form of government in this country. And they WON'T be customer friendly...


Larry

 

[TexasRifleman]

How does Mech-Tech get away with selling the carbine conversion kits?

It's legal to sell all kinds of things.

I can buy auto sears, short barrels, pistol kits, I can even buy the ingredients to make several explosives.

It's putting these items together in a certain manner, or having them in the same place as other items, that creates the "crime".

Since Mech Tech isn't selling a "firearm" they can sell whatever they want.

Buyer beware....

 

[Bobarino]

Having a Mech Tech carbine installed on your 1911 frame -- and also still owning the original 5" 1911 barrel -- may constitue "Constructive Possession" of an unregistered SBR.

i think with Mech Tech at least, since the barrel and stock are all one unit, you couldn't but the 5" barrel and the Mech Tech stock at the same time, thus negating constructive possession. i could be wrong though. it did happen that one time before....

Bobby

 

[Sam1911]

i think with Mech Tech at least, since the barrel and stock are all one unit, you couldn't but the 5" barrel and the Mech Tech stock at the same time, thus negating constructive possession. i could be wrong though. it did happen that one time before....

See, this is why it's so confusing and dangerous. The ATF has said that if you EVER...ONCE...convert a pistol to a rifle by adding a long barrel and a butt stock to the pistol receiver, that receiver is now, and forevermore, a rifle.

SO, the fact that you take off the butt-stock before you put the short barrel on the frame is irrelevant. It is a rifle and if you assemble it with a barrel under 16", you've created an unregistered SBR.

So, Mech-Tech's "upper" will keep buyers from assembling it so that it is functionally in SBR configuration, but legally the damage has been done the first time that kit is installed.

To sum it up: Buy a Mech-Tech carbine kit for your 1911 or Glock, install it once, and that pistol is now a rifle. Install the FACTORY barrel back in it, WITHOUT a butt stock, and that pistol-looking-thing in your holster is now an unregistered short-barreled-rifle.

Sux, don't it?

-Sam

 

[AJAX22]

Once the overall length of a firearm hits 26 inches (with a 16 inch barrel) it ceases to legally be a pistol and instead becomes a non rifle/non pistol title 1 firearm....

there are some guns (1919A4) which are legally not pistols even with 10 inch barrels installed.

 

[Sam1911]

Once the overall length of a firearm hits 26 inches (with a 16 inch barrel) it ceases to legally be a pistol and instead becomes a non rifle/non pistol title 1 firearm....

there are some guns (1919A4) which are legally not pistols even with 10 inch barrels installed.

Please explain that to the ATF Tech Branch. Apparently they're confused.

Seriously, though...check the link to the other thread and read the letter for yourself. They say it just the way I did. In fact, I quoted them.

I don't agree with them one bit, but if the US Supreme Court couldn't impress them to change their ways, I doubt you or I will get their attention.

[EDIT: On a second reading, it would appear that attaching the BUTT STOCK is the moment of conversion. 1919s can be "firearms" but I'd wager that adding the clamp-on butt-stock to one does change it from a non-rifle "firearm" to a true rifle in their eyes. Wanna write them and ask for a tech letter on the point?]

-Sam

 

[ugaarguy]

See, this is why it's so confusing and dangerous. The ATF has said that if you EVER...ONCE...convert a pistol to a rifle by adding a long barrel and a butt stock to the pistol receiver, that receiver is now, and forevermore, a rifle.

SO, the fact that you take off the butt-stock before you put the short barrel on the frame is irrelevant. It is a rifle and if you assemble it with a barrel under 16", you've created an unregistered SBR.

So, Mech-Tech's "upper" will keep buyers from assembling it so that it is functionally in SBR configuration, but legally the damage has been done the first time that kit is installed.

To sum it up: Buy a Mech-Tech carbine kit for your 1911 or Glock, install it once, and that pistol is now a rifle. Install the FACTORY barrel back in it, WITHOUT a butt stock, and that pistol-looking-thing in your holster is now an unregistered short-barreled-rifle.

Sux, don't it?

-Sam

Wasn't that overturned when T/C Arms won their court case against the BATFE in regards to being able to configure the Contender & Encore frames into either a pistol or rifle?

 

[Sam1911]

Wasn't that overturned when T/C Arms won their court case against the BATFE in regards to being able to configure the Contender & Encore frames into either a pistol or rifle?

For the long version of the answer go read the post I linked earlier.

The short version is YES. In 1992, the SCOTUS ruled against the ATF's view of the issue.

The ATF's response is that, in their view, the SCOTUS ruling only applied to a VERY few T/C Contender kits that came from the factory with BOTH rifle and pistol barrels and stocks.

Even though it defies belief, ATF is completely flouting the obvious intent of the Court and say they WILL continue to prosecute a Contender owner who changes his rifle-configured gun (back) to pistol configuration for violating the SBR provision of the NFA, if his Contender was not originally sold as a kit with both sets of parts. (I assume it would say "pistol and rifle" on the 4473...but I'm not sure.)

It is appalling. But, until someone steps up to be the next test case (remember, that process usually takes around 10 years, and hundreds of thousands of dollars, to work up through the courts) the situation is likely to remain unchanged.

-Sam

 

[gyvel]

How does Mech-Tech get away with selling the carbine conversion kits?

They do it the same way all the others get away with selling the 16" barrel/shoulder stock/slotted mainspring housing kits for 1911s.

But...Once you put that kit into your 1911, you've made a rifle out of it. Take those parts out and your once innocent 1911 pistol is now a short barreled rifle in the eyes of our American Gestapo.

Now, having said that, there is probably a one in a million chance you will ever be caught doing that, but do you want to be the example or the test case?