Is there a niche of gunsmithing where a guy could still make a great living?

[TRX]

> rents shop space at the local skeet range

"Go where the customers are." Hmm... I suddenly had a vision of one of those "machine shop in a truck" setups that were popular in the first half of the 20th century.

Some smiths also hook up with gun stores that have no smith of their own.

 

[rbernie]

Some smiths also hook up with gun stores that have no smith of their own.

This is the model that I see most frequently. The gunsmith is a separate profit center, with facilities space amortized as a debit but the gunsmith doesn't have to manage the leases/bills.

 

[dogtown tom]

mrvco ..... you're going to need an FFL and some sort of storefront.

FFL, yes............need a "storefront"? Absolute, 100% rubbish. There is no requirement under Federal law or ATF regulations to have a "storefront".:banghead:

TRX .....I suddenly had a vision of one of those "machine shop in a truck" setups that were popular in the first half of the 20th century

A licensee may only conduct business at two locations:
1. the licensed premises
2. A gun show

ATF specifically prohibits operation from any wheeled or towed vehicle.

 

[9mmepiphany]

One other idea: learn how to make open-class race guns. There are some guys who learn how to convert a Glock or an M&P or a double-stack 1911 into race guns and then charge a grand or three for the process.

I have a friend who did this...the problem is that the sport advances so quickly that by the time he go a gun to the custom, it was already almost obsolete.

That is why Art Guns are a much better trade

 

[oneounceload]

Since I shoot mostly target shotguns, I can tell you that if you know how to fix those expensive things and install the expensive accessories, you can do VERY well. One guy and his wife travel to all the big tournaments in a $300,000 5th wheel where half is his shop. He also sells shotgun accessories besides doing repairs and installs. Once you develop a good reputation in your niche area, then you can do well.

Depending on your focus, your initial investment can get very expensive

 

[Bubbles]

A licensee may only conduct business at two locations:
1. the licensed premises
2. A gun show

ATF specifically prohibits operation from any wheeled or towed vehicle.

Almost correct. Sales and transfers may only be done on the premises or at a gun show, manufacturing activities may only be done at the premises, gunsmithing may be done anywhere.

 

[dogtown tom]

Bubbles

Quote:
A licensee may only conduct business at two locations:
1. the licensed premises
2. A gun show

ATF specifically prohibits operation from any wheeled or towed vehicle.

Almost correct. Sales and transfers may only be done on the premises or at a gun show, manufacturing activities may only be done at the premises, gunsmithing may be done anywhere.

Sure, if its "while you wait".......but he can't drive around town picking up guns to work on and deliver them back the same way three weeks later.
https://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-77-1.pdf

 

[oneounceload]

The gunsmith I mentioned may take more time than a while you wait scenario. Perhaps because this is also his residence there is something different regarding that rule?

 

[Bubbles]

Sure, if its "while you wait".......but he can't drive around town picking up guns to work on and deliver them back the same way three weeks later.
https://www.atf.gov/files/regulation...uling-77-1.pdf

Sure he can - that link only covers the associated recordkeeping and is correct, anything in overnight for repair has to go into the A&D book. Off-site repairs and guns that are in and out within the same business day don't go in the book.

The disposition from a licensee to the non-licensee owner of the repaired firearm is covered under 922(a)(2)(A). Nothing in it states that the gunsmith must ship the repaired gun back to it's owner, it can certainly be hand-carried by the FFL if that's more convenient.

 

[Jim K]

Back to the "niche", I suggest bluing. With the regulations about hazmat chemicals, few gunsmiths will do tank blue any more, yet people want it done. I think a regional (not nationwide) bluing service would pay quite well. Offer the service to gunsmiths and gun stores, not to the general public, and give substantial discounts for guns that are already disassembled and/or polished. Hire and pay well for a top quality polisher.

Once the bluing business is established (if it is), then go on to offer plating, parkerizing, stock (re) finishing, and perhaps even engraving.

Jim

 

[Bubbles]

Parkerizing and engraving are actually fairly easy, we started with them in our first year.

Correct bluing is truly an art, and it can take a long time, especially if the gun wasn't well-maintained and the metal needs a lot of prep work. You're right in that there is an increasing demand for it, and fewer gunsmiths each year who will do it, especially since finishes like duracoat are easier to do. Someone who can do bluing, and do it well, will have no shortage of work.

 

[JSH1]

If he charges $100, he's probably losing ~ $35 of it to taxes. So he's got $65 left. He does have power, heat/AC, water, consumables like sanding supplies and saw blades, chemicals like stripper, stain, oils, etc., plus all the other overhead stuff like paying the accountant, trash service, mortgage, insurance (oh, geeez, the insurance!), advertising, employees' salaries, license fees, and on and on.

If this hypothetical gunsmith is paying 35% in taxes he is making a really good living. Businesses pay taxes on profits, not gross revenue. All of those expenses you mentioned are deductible as business expenses and reduce the owner's taxable income.

 

[WC145]

I have friends that I met through their gunsmithing business. It is a father-son partnership, Dad put up the money for the son's education and equipping the shop, they built a building on their property to house it. The son is the gunsmith, he went through the Colorado School of Trades gunsmithing program. They've been in business going on 9 years now, I met them a year or so after they opened. They run what I guess you could call an old fashioned "do everything" shop, working on everything from minor repairs to full on custom builds. I've had them do all kinds of work - actions jobs, hammer bobs, refinishing, sights, checkering, stock fitting/bedding, barrels shortened, you name it, and they're currently doing a custom revolver and a custom 1911 build for me. They do great work and they're quite busy, especially considering they're location, which is about 200yds east of the middle of no where.

So, my point is, a gunsmith can open a shop and make a good living, I've watched their business grow from a start up to a very successful and respected enterprise, but it takes a big investment of not only money, but time, effort, and education. They're success is due, in no small part, to the gunsmith's versatility. I think that if he were trying to run a niche shop specializing in just one type of work they'd have had a much harder time of it. If you are going to be a specialist you need to show expertise in that area, hard to do as a new graduate or when just starting a business. Every heart surgeon is a damn good physician first, then he goes on to specialize in his field. I'd have a hard time trusting my beloved family heirloom to a guy just starting his niche shop if he can't show me that he's got a lot of prior experience that got him to the point that he decided to just focus on doing "X".

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I don't know how "good" your living would be, but how about gun refinishing? You'll also have to learn gunsmithing skills and acquire the special tools as in most cases you have to take the gun apart and put it back together when you're done. This will still require a great deal of equipment and training/experience before you touch the first paying customer's gun. To take other peoples' guns for the work you need a FFL.

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

My gunsmith is in his late 70's and still working for now on a reduced basis. I still have a few guns in need of trigger work. The good gunsmiths are dying off and are not being replaced by younger ones so that alone is a positive for the OP. Remember we are talking gunsmiths not parts changers.
A gunsmith will always be in high demand.

 

[oneounceload]

remember we are talking gunsmiths not parts changers.
A gunsmith will always be in high demand.

bingo!

 

[Uncle Richard]

Pretty self-explanatory. We live in a world where most things are mass produced and most people are OK with that. Our guns aren't a whole lot different. Mass produced guns, sometimes with a few small parts swaps, serve most of our purposes just fine. Consumers are able to switch springs, sights, extractors, do action jobs themselves, and mount scopes themselves.

What's left for someone who might want to build a career as a gunsmith?

First of all, work for a gunsmith to determine if its something you would like to do. If you like it, learn as much as possible and buy out their business. Also, have the previous gunsmith work for you part time because they are probably tired of carrying the whole business (answering the phone, sales, book keeping, etc) themselves.

Its a whole lot easier to buy an estabished business (that has a customer base) than it is to start with nothing.

 

[Speedo66]

A niche? Try making Rossi lever guns work, and be accurate. Seems they are a hit or miss proposition, with terrible customer service.

Get a reputation as the man to go to for their repair and custom work, and you may have found your niche.

Be the Doug Turnbull of the Rossi world.

 

[UpperAtmosphere]

One very important tip for all aspiring gunsmiths:

If a customer wants to pay you for your work, answer the phone during posted business hours. If you're a smaller shop, maybe it's just you, you might be in the back working on something. That's cool. I understand. Get an answering machine.

 

[philoe]

What Jim K said regarding bluing. Parkerizing and properly polishing and refinishing guns as well. It doesn't matter if you have a $300 pistol or a $1500 one, if you have an unsightly blemish, you would like to have somebody that can get it as close to new as possible.
I also think offering Cerakote and Duracoat services would be a plus. Lots of women out there that would like a personalized handgun or rifle in bubble gum colors. Somebody wants to buy their wife a hot pink AK for Valentines Day, you've got it. A good part of that business could also be cleaning up milsurps or beaters that you get for cheap. You inspect for functionality, maybe swap some springs, refinish them, then sell the finished product at great margin. This would keep you busy as well.

 

[CCS3]

Don't get into gunsmithing if you expect to do get rich. It all depends on what your idea of a decent living is. Can you make 60K or more a year? Sure. Start up costs are gonna hurt you at first. Buying tools and machines are gonna kill your profit. You have to think about how many jobs is it going to take to pay this off.

Take machine checkering for instance. A decent knee mill is 10K. A rotory table is 400+. Cutters are expensive. It all adds up and eats profit.

Then there is getting your reputation up and getting work on the bench. Also, can you afford to replace a gun if something goes horribly wrong?

It seems the best way to go is do it part time at first and build up the business slow.

 

[BobTheTomato]

Get a reality show and triple your prices.......it would be a GAME CHANGER!

 

[UpperAtmosphere]

Get a reality show and triple your prices.......it would be a GAME CHANGER!

Neva been dun befo!

 

[B!ngo]

So for me, and I suspect for a lot of shooters, there is a real challenge in finding a trusted gunsmith. As a result, I tend to send my guns out via USPS to have them serviced. It's a hassle and is something I put off doing even though I know the outcome is likely to be excellent.
So separate from the gunsmith skills and services rendered, if one could offer a simple service for shipping the firearm to the gunsmith - boxes shipped to the firearm owner with pre-paid mailing info and insurance, a simple web checklist of what is needed (presuming that many owners need some basic tuning and servicing, even deep cleaning), etc. It would be sort of like Amazon in reverse.
Many gunsmiths seem to be among the last bastion of high skill but low services LLC's. People are used to the convenience of the kind of interactions cited above and I suspect spend more on such services if it was simple and available.
B

 

[Pointshoot]

Well, first of all, you have to take the comments of people who have never been in the business with a grain of salt. People can have some pretty strong opinions about things they have no personal experience actually doing.

I don't know how it is in other regions, but its tough to find competent general gunsmiths in my area. Many have closed down, moved, or retired through the years. The ones that are good, are backed up with work. Why is this the case ? I don't know, but it would seem to be a question worth finding the answer to if someone was considering the business, I would think.

As for how much to charge ? Beats me. But I know I would pay a premium to have some gunsmithing done by someone who knows what they're doing, is local so I can just drop it off rather than ship it, and would turn it around in a decent amount of time. It would also be nice to be able to talk to someone face-to-face to go over my options. You can pay pretty good money for an electrician or a plumber to do work and they are far easier to find.
There are guns that are valuable and useful enough to me to be worth having work done on them. A gun that won't work is of little value to me. And, there are some guns that take specialized knowledge that are worth shipping to have work done. (Double shotguns, for example. I don't know of any smiths within this state that I would trust with some vintage doubleguns. Though I haven't looked around for some time. One smith was within a long drive away, but he moved outta state. )