Thoughts from the gunsmithing counter

[il.bill]

Thanks for a great read.

I always get a kick out of customers who do not tell you everything that is acting up when they drop off the repair because they do no want to spend any more money than they must to 'get it right'. I guess they figure if they do not mention a specific problem, it could be taken care of anyway during the repair process.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I expect them to be professional but not curt, instructive without being condescending, critical, if need be, as to anything I might have done to contribute to my gun's troubles but not insulting, and etc... In the end, they work for me.

How those of us in the skilled trades deal with the general public is entirely dependent on that public. If you are humble and respectful, you'll be much happier with how you are treated in return than if you are pretentious, arrogant, pushy. And that's largely the point the OP is making; you are coming to us with a need for a professional service, so show due humility for your own lack of expertise and we'll get along fine. Try to tell us how we should do our jobs, we'll tell you where you can go. Which brings us to another point:

In the end, they work for me.

Too much of the public has this attitude. We don't need any one customer's business enough to take it in the shorts financially or deal with someone who is more aggravation than it's worth. I've had more than one person make a similar statement, and I have told every one of them to get knotted. 7 years later, I'm still running successful businesses. Professional skilled tradesmen are not box store cashiers, and we don't have to/often won't take smugness from customers.

Thanks for a great read.

I always get a kick out of customers who do not tell you everything that is acting up when they drop off the repair because they do no want to spend any more money than they must to 'get it right'. I guess they figure if they do not mention a specific problem, it could be taken care of anyway during the repair process.

If you think it's bad with gunsmithing, spend a minute in the automotive world. We're expected to have a crystal ball and magic touch.

 

[swampcrawler]

I can very easily picture every gunsmith I've known saying every single one of those things. And more. With more four letter words.

I love gunsmiths lol

 

[Hokkmike]

Too much of the public has this attitude. We don't need any one customer's business enough to take it in the shorts financially or deal with someone who is more aggravation than it's worth. I've had more than one person make a similar statement, and I have told every one of them to get knotted. 7 years later, I'm still running successful businesses. Professional skilled tradesmen are not box store cashiers, and we don't have to/often won't take smugness from customers.

I guess I am old school....treat EVERY customer as if they were your most important. But, as you say, times are changing.

Here is a poem I taught (in part) from Langston Hughes: (from memory but I think I got it mostly right)

AS I LIVE AND AS I LEARN
MY MOTTO IS;
DIG, AND BE DUG
IN RETURN

 

[Ignition Override]

A buddy months ago paid $160 for the professional gun smith repair on his ('AK') AMD-65's cracked, small spot weld.

An Armslist guy offered his 'TGI' AMD (TGIs have the quality, Hungarian chf steel barrel/receiver), and I Accepted the fact that the spot weld on my AMD would also crack. No other gun smith in this city does the work, has the correct gear for the right type of larger weld (no pinning was done).

Took my rifle to him, paid the charge, with no complaint. You either accept that work will probably be required on certain guns (16" barrel min., or SBR-costs more), or you don't buy/trade for them. Guys online assume that a much quicker/cheaper AMR weld repair will be just as good. Maybe the work would be just as good, but nobody else does an approved ATF procedure, in This area. Even if there were another smith here (willing etc), I highly prefer quality work, and might not trust work done at approx. half of the price I paid.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I guess I am old school....treat EVERY customer as if they were your most important. But, as you say, times are changing.

They are, and we have to adapt. This is the age of entitlement, a large percentage of consumers feeling they're owed something, including but not limited to being made to feel special. Nowhere in my mission statement or provided services are the words "ego boost" or "free hugs".

I take very good care of my customers, and I'm actually really friendly and cordial until I have a reason not to be. That 5% the OP talks about are the ones who get my crass side, both in automotive and gunsmithing/machine shop services. It's always on a case by case basis, but the "you work for me" mentality is insulting and erroneous. I work for myself, you are contracting my services in consideration of payment. My customers may dictate what they'd like me to do, but they absolutely do not have the authority to tell me I must do it, how to go about it, or how long it should take. If they don't like my methods or timeframes, they can take a walk. Likewise, if I don't like their attitude, it's my right as a business owner to tell them to pound sand.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

I work for myself, you are contracting my services in consideration of payment. My customers may dictate what they'd like me to do, but they absolutely do not have the authority to tell me I must do it, how to go about it, or how long it should take. If they don't like my methods or timeframes, they can take a walk. Likewise, if I don't like their attitude, it's my right as a business owner to tell them to pound sand.

Absolutely! I recently retired from over 40 years in the trophies, awards, and engraving business. I've always said "All my customers are also my friends" and it's always worked out for me. The only things I miss in retirement are my customers, who made my day enjoyable (and profitable).

 

[bannockburn]

Hokkmike

I guess I am old school....treat EVERY customer as if they were your most important.

You know I asked my Dad what was his secret to success as a salesman was and he told me something very similar to your axiom: treat every customer exactly the same way you would want to be treated if you were the customer. Worked extremely well for him (and for me), for many, many years.

 

[Hokkmike]

They are, and we have to adapt. This is the age of entitlement, a large percentage of consumers feeling they're owed something, including but not limited to being made to feel special. Nowhere in my mission statement or provided services are the words "ego boost" or "free hugs".

I take very good care of my customers, and I'm actually really friendly and cordial until I have a reason not to be. That 5% the OP talks about are the ones who get my crass side, both in automotive and gunsmithing/machine shop services. It's always on a case by case basis, but the "you work for me" mentality is insulting and erroneous. I work for myself, you are contracting my services in consideration of payment. My customers may dictate what they'd like me to do, but they absolutely do not have the authority to tell me I must do it, how to go about it, or how long it should take. If they don't like my methods or timeframes, they can take a walk. Likewise, if I don't like their attitude, it's my right as a business owner to tell them to pound sand.

I don't think I would have the knowledge to "dictate" either mechanical work or gun smith services. That is likely why I would go to one in the first place. If one is fixing my car or repairing my firearm then he in my employ, and like it or not, "he/she works for me". But, I think we are nitpicking semantics here. I am NOT saying that I am anybody's boss. I AM saying that I am supporting their industry and livelihood with my hard earned money. Not only do I treat those I "hire" with great respect but I expect them to receive full and equitable compensation for a job well done. My actual gun smith, gun store owner, and, since you mentioned it, mechanic are very friendly and LOVE to do business with me. I always look for the best in people and that is what, as you say - 95% of the time, I get. While I don't need an ego-boost, it is big enough already thank you, I can always use a free hug!

Note to readers: Messaging on a board like this conveys meaning devoid of inflection or attitude. I think MachIVshooter and I are saying kind of the same thing from different perspectives.

 

[Snyper]

I expect them to be professional but not curt, instructive without being condescending, critical, if need be, as to anything I might have done to contribute to my gun's troubles but not insulting, and etc...

I wish more people were like that.

 

[barnbwt]

Desert Tech. That is all.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I don't think I would have the knowledge to "dictate" either mechanical work or gun smith services.

What I mean by dictate what they want done is "I would like my timing belt and water pump replaced, new filters, spark plugs and please take a look at my brakes & suspension" or "I'd like my .308 threaded 5/8-24". To which I say OK, they agree to the price, and the work is done as they want it.

Where we have a problem is when someone tells me to slap pads on rotors that have been ground down nearly to the fins, insisting that it'll be fine. Or when they tell me the parts prices are too high, they can get those parts on eBay for half as much. And any instance of trying to tell me how to do what I've been doing professionally for two decades. Those are the ones who I don't want to (and won't) deal with.

I'm very fortunate to have excellent customers, but I dealt with my share of the other kind over my years of working for other shops. A couple of times I had hovering know-it-alls annoy me to the point of handing them whatever tool was in my hand and walking away.

That's why myriad versions of this exist:

Not only do I treat those I "hire" with great respect but I expect them to receive full and equitable compensation for a job well done.

If everyone was like that, this thread wouldn't exist

 

[Jim Watson]

I have one local gunsmith and two more close enough for in person dealings. They are prompt, reasonable, and forthcoming.
My mailorder gunsmithing has been less successful. I have not had a gun satisfactorily completed in one trip, ever.
Factory service is just kind of ok, except that I have only once gotten back a description of the work actually done.

 

[justice06rr]

“I recall that rifle coming through, and I halfway remember the work, but this shows signs of a monkey wrench and a five-pound sledge, and I don’t remember being that dumb.”

These are all good stories. Above made me lol in real life. Thanks for the laughs!

I can do about 90% of the mods/repairs on all my firearms. The rest is for a skilled gunsmith (and there is a big difference).

 

[Cannibul]

You left out:

Good
Fast
Cheap

Pick any two.

 

[entropy]

I loved the "gunsmithing is a glamorous profession"

 

[1911 guy]

Machining is a lot like gunsmithing in that the customer dictates what the final product will be and is paying for that. Also similar is that the customer telling me how to go about it usually results in wasted time, higher cost and sometimes scrap material.

Again, I'm not a gunsmith by any stretch, other than tinkering with my own stuff once in a while. But the attitude prevails, too, in my field that the customer becomes involved in a project and comes across with the "you work for me" attitude. Nope. You're paying me for a service and are more than welcome to tell me what the finished product should be. Now go away and let me do it because the sooner it's done you get your stuff and I get paid.

 

[gunhack]

excellent .. outstanding .. and yes .. quite funny .. !!

 

[Moparnut]

Formerly employed in the auto industry I can say I have had many of those thoughts over the years. The only thing disagree with you on is not calling the customer every so often to give them an update.
One particular saying has always stuck with me, " do you want it right or do you want it right now?"

 

[Swing]

a solid 95% of the customers who visit the shop are awesome, outstanding, first-rate people who brighten my day when they show up at the window. The other 5% are responsible for this list

That's an appreciably better ratio than some fields I've worked in. Ah-ha-ha!

 

[AeroDillo]

That's an appreciably better ratio than some fields I've worked in. Ah-ha-ha!

I know. Surprised me too.

 

[Deus Machina]

Much as I love some of my customers, "you work for me" is exactly the same as saying "I pay your salary" to a police officer.
Any single person pays only a part of a worker's check. They may be paying for their part of it, but they're paying for the work. Not to have it done in exactly the manner they think it should be done, and definitely not to listen to their guff.
The customer pays for the service and the end product. It doesn't matter if it's a gunsmith, mechanic, custom work of any sort, or the minimum-wage cashier. If you find yourself even thinking of saying "you work for me," pause and choose your words very carefully.
My father's advice was "treat every customer the way you would expect to be treated."
As for the 'age of entitlement' it may be and I've caught this sort of thing plenty, but never from anyone younger than my own thirty years.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Formerly employed in the auto industry I can say I have had many of those thoughts over the years. The only thing disagree with you on is not calling the customer every so often to give them an update.

It's a little different with guns than cars in that regard. There's so much more going on with an automobile that there will almost always be a need to have regular contact with a customer, especially if the job is some flavor of rebuilding/restoration. If you bring a rifle to your smith to have it re-barreled and the stock glass bedded and they tell you they'll call when it's done, there's really no need for contact in the interim unless there is a problem. Conversely, when a customer brings in a vintage car that has been stored under a tarp for 30 years and tells you to restore it to it's former glory, you're going to find all kinds of things as you go that need to be discussed with the owner, both in terms of cost and how they want it dealt with.

 

[TRX]

Actually, 99% of what I do is sit at a bench with a punch and hammer and play raccoon until stuff works again, and 99% of my raccoon work boils down to gunsmithing somebody else’s gunsmithing.

I'm not familiar with the phrase "play raccoon". Google didn't return anything likely in the first couple ofpages.

 

[hdwhit]

CoalTrain49 wrote:
Engineers... I used to work with them. Absolutely from another planet.

Take care. There are enough engineers on this site, they might start talking about some of the machine operators they've come across in their time - no trade, craft or profession is immune from incompetent practitioners.

With engineers, a lot of it depends on how they were trained. Depending on the school, someone can get a degree in engineering without ever touching a machine tool. In other programs you can't graduate if you can't build what you design and people emerge from them with not only their degrees but also certifications in fields such as welding and machining.