Is there a preferred do all pistol powder?

I could get by with nothing but unique and varget. Not optimal for some but I could get from 9mm-40 up through 44 mag and 460 with unique, and 222 up to 300 mag with varget.

I probably keep 20 powders, but varget and unique I buy in 4 or 8 lb jugs.
 
AJC1 said:
That chart has Silhouette significantly slower than true blue. They are very close with true blue being slower at least according to the manufacturer.
It also has universal as slower than unique and the listings don't support that in any loadings. I really like this chart but it's a little off in some places.View attachment 1143043
Click to expand...


It also has H335 slower than both Ball c2 and CFE223.

That is just unrealistic.
 
cfullgraf said:
I feel burn rate charts are nice information to see but otherwise useless, You need to look at the actual loading data over a number of sources and powders and see what is a "universal" choice.
Click to expand...

Let me comment on "burn rate" charts. The purpose of advertising is to create ill informed consumers who make ill rational choices. As a measure of comparison, burn rate charts are so useless to as to be a comedic parody of reality.

Object in point:AA2700. Accurate Arms purchased one of those 90,000 lb WC 852 lots around 1991, repackaged it in kegs labeled as AA2700. I think the 2700 was chosen because the military used the powder to push a 150 grain bullet to 2700 fps in the Garand. Based on the burn rate chart, one would think it was inappropriate for use in the Garand, but not so. This powder has a quick enough pressure drop that port pressures are not excessive for the Garand gas system.

All we know about powders is blaring labels, “end of history” infomercials in the popular press, and some crude burn rate chart, which is about as useful as using a cubit rod to measure to the ten thousandths.

Our powders are blended against company specific pressure curves, and given that blending is only about 10% plus or minus, and that the mean can be shifted up or down, there is a mind boggling number of pressure curve averages that could be made from blending faster and slower lots of the same gunpowder. A pressure curve, a standardized pressure curve, would be far more useful to evaluate powders. And I am sure a pressure curve would show that differences by class, between the 150 plus powders out there, are in fact, extremely small, perhaps a percentage point or two. Published pressure curves would be very helpful in deciding which powder would be best for a particular application, which is why the shooting community will never see them.

I have to tell you, cheap chronographs just blew a huge hole in the hull of the Magumn hype ship. I can imagine the howling that went on within Marketing Departments when the velocity curtain was pulled back, revealing their carefully crafted lies were just illusions feeding delusions. Without chronographs, the shooting community had to believe the advertising hype of the latest and greatest super Magnum, or wonder Wildcat. Once chronographs came out, shooters found that bigger did yield more velocity, more muzzle blast, and lots more recoil, but the increased velocities were usually 200-300 fps less than claimed. And then the expense and bother of feeding and shooting a big boomer, which is only moderately faster than a standard cartridge, caused many to walk away.

Tell you, 70 grains of IMR4350 to push a 150 gr bullet to 3000 fps in a 300 Win Mag, will quickly empty a powder can .

Do note, claims of over the horizon shots and performance are made almost monthly in periodicals, but at best, the gun writer shoots at100 yards. They never actually test to see if the bullet is tumbling at the 1500 yard distances they claim for the bullet, and they never test expansion in ballistic gelatin at those distances. It used to be wet newspaper and wet phone books were the Gold Standards for expansions, but both free newspapers and phone books disappeared from the curb on trash day. What do you know, our experts just picked up the goal posts and moved them. Now the current Gold Standard for bullet expansion is water filled milk jugs, robbed from recycling bins on trash day! It is humorous to envision gun writers, trolling in the early mornings, furtively running to and from their vehicles, racing to collect as many free milk jugs from the recycle bin, before the garbage truck picks them up.
 
Last edited:
RikSors said:
Where in Texas is this heaven we talking about?

Unique is just as dry as the cow pie around here.
Click to expand...

A bit north of you... Plano. I posted it in the 'where are' thread when I saw them. I was in last week and they were, of course, gone by then... but I have read reports of others finding it on shelves, even if it's in 1# cans. Alliant is shipping... but I think the demand for it is so strong, it doesn't gather any dust on the shelf. Other powders, notably Hodgdon and some IMR powders, have been in the pipeline a little longer... so the demand isn't quite as heavy.

When I was in last week, they still had SportPistol on the shelf, for example, they still had an 8# of H335, about 5 8# of TiteGroup, and a slew of other 1# Hodgdon, VV, IMR, and other powders.
 
9mmepiphany said:
Interesting.
I'd heard from an orange broker that most Californian oranges were being exported to Canada...granted this was over 10 years ago
Click to expand...
Lots of commodities are like that, from what I’m seeing. Probably powders, too. It seems like during the Plandemic, the places where powder’s made got bupkis while the places with big distribution centers got flooded. Who knows? Maybe it’s central planning rearing it’s ugly head again.

I grew up in Brevard Cnty Florida down the street from where Crisafulli groves got its start. Back then (1970’s) we were told most Florida citrus was shipped to Western Europe and later in the 80’s I was talking to Steve Crisafulli and he told me most of their crops went to South America - Argentina and Brazil, mostly. I’m guessing it changes because of some growing reason, or there are new varieties or diseases or something. I know for a while when the MED Fly scare was big (1989) Florida stopped importing citrus completely. I think California did, too. Or maybe they stopped exporting? Either way, it’s been California oranges in Florida since about 2014 and, according to the caterer I spoke to, Florida oranges in California since about 2019. As long as we don’t end up getting Texas oranges. Way too sour. Something about the soil.
 
.
Titegroup….

It works in everything from 25 ACP all the way through 500 S&W Magnum

It’s the jack-of-all powders, master of none.
 
Slamfire said:
I have to tell you, cheap chronographs just blew a huge hole in the hull of the Magumn hype ship. I can imagine the howling that went on within Marketing Departments when the velocity curtain was pulled back, revealing their carefully crafted lies were just illusions feeding delusions. Without chronographs, the shooting community had to believe the advertising hype of the latest and greatest super Magnum, or wonder Wildcat. Once chronographs came out, shooters found that bigger did yield more velocity, more muzzle blast, and lots more recoil, but the increased velocities were usually 200-300 fps less than claimed..
Click to expand...

Nice post all around! Unfortunately, just as gun marketing departments like to push ever more variations on tried and true cartridges and chase performance for the sake of it and with the associated hype, how many people in reloading forums have we seen post their extensive impressions of their recently tried handgun loads with the caveat "I don't have a chrony but it sure feels hot/good/warm/accurate/smoking/just-like.." along with "no pressure signs" or some variation of that.

That said, I fall for the same thing everyone else does. I won't be hunting Rhino anytime soon but just ordered a 500 S&W Magnum. Why? Because I like the experience of shooting heavy handguns for the sake of it!

As far as a do-it-all powder, that's awfully tough if you shoot light 38 SPL, 9MM, .40, 10 and the revolver magnums from 357 up through 475 or higher.

I use a lot of Power Pistol and own some Unique. If you gave me some Ramshot Enforcer to go with one of the first two (I also have a supply of this), I think those two would cover mild to wild and everything in between in just about every caliber.
 
Last edited:
I like Winchester 231 for basic pistol loads, and 2400 for heavy magnum loads. I've used Blue Dot, and Bullseye also with good results.
 
I used to use Unique as an all around powder for .38 Spec, 9mm, .357 Mag, .44 Mag and .45 ACP. It works pretty good for mid range to moderate loads, and I used and still use W-296/H-110 for .357 Magnum max loads. (Gave up on the .44 years ago, too expensive to feed). Currently use Power Pistol for performance loads in 9mm and .357 Mag. For target loads, I still have some Titegroup, Bulseye, HP-38 and Universal on hand and am planning to try some Ramshot Zip.
So far, haven’t been too impressed with CFE-Pistol or True Blue. Was hoping for more velocity from the 9mm with those, but Power Pistol beats them. Power Pistol also gives 90% of W-296 performance with half the cost in .357 Magnum with 158 gr bullets.
So, if the OP is planning on efficient higher performance loads, I suggest Power Pistol (or maybe BE-86, but I still think Power Pistol might be better). If he wants mild plinking/target loads, the jury is still out, with Bullseye, Titegroup, W-231/HP-38, and hopefully Ramshot Zip in the running.
 
fxvr5 said:
How did you come to this conclusion?
Click to expand...
While W231 works great for range ammo with both FMJ and cast bullets if you want high velocities for JHP bullets W231 will hit the pressure limit before it hits the velocity a slower powder will deliver. I guess I should have specified for top end ammo because I use a lot of W231 for 9mm range ammo...
 
I was thinking most burn rate charts were developed from "Closed bomb" testing, not the same thing as in a loaded cartridge,
and two powders in two different cartridges may behave different between the two cartridges.

Also given say a + or -5 % allowable burn rate difference between lots, anything that is close can move a powders in the list depending on the lot tested.
Temp comes into play as well, some powders are faster as temp goes up, some powders are faster as temp goes down.
I wasn't attempting to say the chart I provided was the best chart or the most accurate, it was just a sample of one of couple charts I have.
and I believe it was titled relative burn rate.

Another chart that was provided showed WSF as faster than N330, from my experience in 9mm N330 is faster.
Westerns old chart shows Silhouette as one step slower than AA#2.
From my experience in 9mm I would say Silhouette is much closer to CFE-P than it is AA#2.
Looking at the other chart it shows Titegroup and W231 on the same line, I would say Titegroup is faster than W231/HP38 at least for what I load.

So I would say the charts are not exact by any means (and most of them disagree with each other somewhat)
they just give you an idea of what powders might be a good choice for your application.

For example I could look at a chart (if I needed to) and say well all they have on the shelf is H335, and it's not going to be a choice for 7mm Rem Mag,
or all they have is H335, H4350 and H4831 and if I needed to glance at a chart to find out I could see none of those are going to do me any good trying to load 9mm.

Another example, I can't find any HP38/W231 for my .45 loads, OK they do have ZIP on the shelf, while not the same it would be closer to HP38 than say CFE-P.
(side note, if you like HP38/W231 and can't find any in my uses ZIP is real close)

Are they useless, No IMO, but a burn rate chart is not load data, and just because two powders are close on a chart does not mean it would be safe to use data from one for another that is close.
 
Last edited:
Dudedog said:
I was thinking most burn rate charts were developed from "Closed bomb" testing, not the same thing as in a loaded cartridge,
and two powders in two different cartridges may behave different between the two cartridges.

Also given say a + or -5 % allowable burn rate difference between lots, anything that is close can move a powders in the list depending on the lot tested.
Temp comes into play as well, some powders are faster as temp goes up, some powders are faster as temp goes down.
I wasn't attempting to say the chart I provided was the best chart or the most accurate, it was just a sample of one of couple charts I have.
and I believe it was titled relative burn rate.

Another chart that was provided showed WSF as faster than N330, from my experience in 9mm N330 is faster.
Westerns old chart shows Silhouette as one step slower than AA#2.
From my experience in 9mm I would say Silhouette is much closer to CFE-P than it is AA#2.
Looking at the other chart it shows Titegroup and W231 on the same line, I would say Titegroup is faster than W231/HP38 at least for what I load.

So I would say the charts are not exact by any means (and most of them disagree with each other somewhat)
they just give you an idea of what powders might be a good choice for your application.

For example I could look at a chart (if I needed to) and say well all they have on the shelf is H335, and it's not going to be a choice for 7mm Rem Mag,
or all they have is H335, H4350 and H4831 and if I needed to glance at a chart to find out I could see none of those are going to do me any good trying to load 9mm.

Another example, I can't find any HP38/W231 for my .45 loads, OK they do have ZIP on the shelf, while not the same it would be closer to HP38 than say CFE-P.
(side note, if you like HP38/W231 and can't find any in my uses ZIP is real close)

Are they useless, No IMO, but a burn rate chart is not load data, and just because to powders are close on a chart does not mean it would be safe to use data from one for another that is close.
Click to expand...
I believe linear charts made by that powder manufacturer. Combined charts get crazy obviously. Crossing manufacturers is useless because the tests are done by different technicians in different labs. It would be helpful if they all used a reference powder to help normalize their results.
 
I haven't found a "do-all" pistol powder for my varied needs. I can't even find a "do-all" pistol powder that meets my non-magnum power level needs for the 357 Mag, 41 Mag., 44 Special, 44 Mag., 45 Auto, and 45 Colt I load.

I've tried fast to medium speed powders including W231, W244, BE-86, Power Pistol, Sport Pistol, American Select, and Clean Shot, over 20 in total. All have their positives and negatives. I currently use those specifically listed, but six powders is too many for my applications and I'm still working to pare the list. Some won't be replaced when I run out.

It would be nice if a powder were developed that was more flexible that the existing fast to medium burn rate pistol powders currently available. Perhaps I'll start another thread with the attributes that would separate such a powder from those we have now.
 
Currently load 9mm, 45acp and 357. I see a 40 in my future ...

I have a hodgepog of powder that i can try out due to buying up a couple of peoples loading supplies when they got out but is there a single powder that can do all of these calibers well? If not is there 2?
Click to expand...


So from back in the early 80's up till now I have been feeding the appetite of handguns from the lowly 380 up to the 454. The only missing caliber would be the 40sw because I have multiple 10mm and never had a need for the chopped version.

I shoot cast, plated, powder coated, and jacketed bullets in all of them depending on what I'm doing. That said to cut back to only two powders would be really hard. If I had to reduce them however, I would have to go with the Accurate line and run 5 and 7. I could get usable productive loads for all with those two. I've found that AA-5 will get me close to most of the loads I use Unique for so I could easily go with either of them.

That said, I currently use Bullseye, Unique, HS-6, and Accurate 5, 7, and 9, for my individually taylored loads, as there are target and hunting requirements that have to be considered in my choices.

I've tried the newer powders and found they do have some merit within a group of loads, they just don't play well with a variety of different bullets, and if they do, it's a narrow range of loads.

When you cut to the chase, list out the bullets and weights you plan to use. Then pick a target type load, and a upper end load, and choose the powders that will serve you across all. I'm betting that it will fall somewhere in the Unique, to AA-7 range. For your calibers maybe even throw in #9.

If I had to cut to only 2 powders the above 2 would be them, with AA-9 being the swap out for AA-7. I could cover everything from target to magnum velocity hunting loads with those, and have workable accurate loads across all of my handguns with some form of bullet.

Remember when your looking, that the cast, whether coated or not, and plated bullets add another whole dimension to loading.
 
Last edited:
I would suggest getting 3 different speed of powders. Fast powder for light BE, target loads, Med for general practice, and slow for the Mag loads. Then all bases are covered. Using 1 powder is going to limit your results. Yes it will work but will not give you optimum performance. For me WST, WSF and W296 covers most all my bases. But I have many more to try and use if needed.

If your one that likes to shoot a lot at one time TG would be my last choice. Since it heats up the barrel so fast you want be able to hold onto the gun.
 
Unique is hard to beat, but I think VV N340 does it. Looking at 44 mag data with the popular 240 gr. bullet you can still get 1250 fps at the top end, and 900 fps target loads are very accurate and burn clean. It meters better than Unique, and still gives excellent case fill. Plus there is lots of data for it.

To completely cover the spectrum of low velocity to high velocity I would add American Select at the low (fast burning) end and Accurate 4100 for top end loads.
 
Unique come close! Some of the newer powders sound interesting. I'm going to be out of Unique, probably the first time that I won't have any Unique in my stash in nearly 50 years. So I'll be looking at something else.
 
Ironicaintit said:
I do love Unique. But, I'm down to my last pound.
I did score some HS6, so I'll be evolving to that.
Haven't tried it yet though
Click to expand...
IMO, HS-6 meters better, is dirtier and works better with magnum primers, while Unique does fine with standard. Also HS-6 seemed to like it better at the upper pressure levels. I much prefer Power Pistol or even Accurate No. 5 over HS-6. Hope it works better for you.
 
@2ndtimer , yeah I hope it works well too! Thanks for the heads up. I'd read about it before I got it, and think it should work well enough. I'd kinda forgotten that it may be happier with magnum primers. It's not a deal breaker for me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
  • Locked
Which powder for .357 16" Winchester Trapper?
Replies
21
Views
1K
silhanek
S
H
  • Locked
Powder question ?
2
Replies
27
Views
1K
Kuyong_Chuin
K
LiveLife
  • Locked
Pistol Powder Comparison Pictures
2
Replies
48
Views
14K
LiveLife
LiveLife
Curator
  • Locked
Powder measure for really small charges.
Replies
23
Views
5K
RealGun
RealGun
J
  • Locked
One handgun powder to rule them all...
2 3
Replies
54
Views
5K
Jeff H
Jeff H
Back
Top