Is there a suggested minimum foot lbs of energy for whitetail and hogs?

[Bexar]

I've heard previously 1200 foot lbs but a hot .357 magnum at touching distance delivers about 550 ft-lbs. I don't think any deer walking in North America can take a boiler room or even oblique hit from a .357 at arms length.

I'm mostly curious about .30 caliber hunting configured bullets.

Does anybody know what velocity hydro-static shock occurs?

Thanks...Bexar

Found my own answer...if you are a reader there is a considerable amount of thought in this article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_shock

Ibid: Dr. Randall Gilbert describes hydrostatic shock as an important factor in bullet performance on whitetail deer, “When it [a bullet] enters a whitetail’s body, huge accompanying shock waves send vast amounts of energy through nearby organs, sending them into arrest or shut down.”[65] Dave Ehrig expresses the view that hydrostatic shock depends on impact velocities above 1,100 ft (340 m) per second.[66] Sid Evans explains the performance of the Nosler Partition bullet and Federal Cartridge Company’s decision to load this bullet in terms of the large tissue cavitation and hydrostatic shock produced from the frontal diameter of the expanded bullet.[67] The North American Hunting Club suggests big game cartridges that create enough hydrostatic shock to quickly bring animals down

 

[Water-Man]

The old suggested minimum was 1000.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I like to be up in the 4500 to 5000 Ft Lbs range on just about everything I shoot.

 

[Geno]

I read an article back in the mid-80s, in Peterson's Hunting magazine, wherein the author described two sets of number: 1,000 pounds energy for medium game, and 1,800 pounds energy for big/dangerous game, ie the big bears. Those numbers were being contrasted against modern numbers being 1,200 pounds for medium game, and 2,000 pounds for big/dangerous game. For my part, I have always held to the 1,200 and 2,000.

Geno

 

[Water-Man]

Shoot the animal where it counts and don't worry about the numbers.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Ft lbs never killed anything.

Putting a bullet through body parts needed for life that can't function with a bullet hole in them is what puts meat on the table.

 

[buck460XVR]

Ft lbs never killed anything.

Putting a bullet through body parts needed for life that can't function with a bullet hole in them is what puts meat on the table.

^^^This. Hydrostatic shock is not the primary reason for death by projectile and in many instances, weapons that don't produce hydrostatic shock like bows and handgun calibers, kill just as quickly without it.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Putting a bullet through body parts needed for life that can't function with a bullet hole in them is what puts meat on the table.

Pretty much true.

 

[Bexar]

Y'all are no fun.

 

[Art Eatman]

Hunnerds and hunnerds of feet-pounds? Heck, I can't even count past twenty without committing a public indecency!

 

[R.W.Dale]

Don't get me wrong hydrostatic shock does exist and I use it to my advantage when I don't want to track in the form of full tilt 125g 30-06 loads which on a deer broadside produce instant if somewhat messy results.

In my experience that's a function of pure velocity and not energy, IE a cartridge with slower heavier bullets @ the same energy as my 06 load @3100 fps will not exhibit the same tissue liquefying tendencies.

 

[jmr40]

Ft lbs never killed anything.

Putting a bullet through body parts needed for life that can't function with a bullet hole in them is what puts meat on the table.

True, but energy numbers are a pretty accurate indicator of a bullets ability to do damage to those body parts. If you understand how to interpret the numbers. Assuming similar bullet size and construction the more energy, the more penetration and damage caused. If you compare modern loadings such as 30-06, 270, 308, etc., then the numbers mean something. If you compare heavy slow bullets to each other 44mag, 45-70, 444, etc. then energy numbers mean something. If you start using energy #'s to compare 270 to 45-70, the numbers are much less relevant.

Most consider 1000 ft lbs to be a comfortable number. It can be done with a lot less, but 1000 gives plenty of margin for error. As stated earlier placement and penetration trump energy. And many slow heavy bullets will show very low energy numbers, yet they penetrate very deep and do a lot of damage because of their weight. Bullet construction is at least as important and their is no mathematical way to measure that.

Using energy is one of many ways to evaluate different loadings. Used alone it may be misleading. Used along with other information it can be useful.

 

[elkhunterCO]

In my hunting experience, bullets heavy for caliber, ie: 180+ for 300 win mag or 165+ for 06, etc, will kill deer and elk more humanely and quicker than light bullets for caliber. A misconception I had for a few years was lighter bullets would go faster and thus penetrate better, that is definitely not true. I am a firm believer in heavier than average bullets and have seen the results in elk first hand.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Penetration is predicted by a bunch of variables.

Bullet shape
Bullet weight
Bullet velocity
Bullet construction
Impact angle
Impact resistance IE heavy bone or soft tissue
Tissue and bone density

Etc Etc.....

And then there variables in the field that you don't get to know about until after they happen.

 

[rbernie]

When I wuz a lad, the accepted number for medium thin skinned game was 800ft/lbs on the hide, using basic cup-n-core bullets of appropriate weight for the chambering. It seems that critters are more bullet resistant now than they were then.

 

[ljnowell]

Illinois doesn't put energy requirements on shotguns(no rifles allowed except black powder). Shotguns must be 20ga or larger, nothing above 10ga. Muzzleloaders must be 45 caliber or greater, no plastic parts of bullets counting towards diameter.

They do say this about handguns though:
For handguns, a bottleneck centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger with a case length not exceeding 1.4 inches, or a straight-walled centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger, both of which must be available as a factory load with the published ballistic tables of the manufacturer showing a capability of at least 500 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. Note: There is no case length limit for straight-walled cartridges.

 

[Bexar]

Thanks...y'all. Some enlightening information and some confirming also.

Art...your counting method...is that why boys are reputedly better at math than girls?

Thanks again everyone. Bexar

 

[Choctaw]

A well placed patched roundball has and will take practically any critter in North America, but on paper its ballistics are horrendous. That is why I don't wring my hands over ballistic tables.

 

[Captcurt]

Shoot the animal where it counts and don't worry about the numbers.

This is exactly right. Animals don't read therefore they don't know that it takes X-number of pounds to knock them on their kester. Even moose have fallen to a 22lr.

 

[PonyKiller]

I've always thought chuck hawks was a pretty bright guy, his site has oceans to read about on the subject @ chuckhawks.com.
With all that's been said that's right on point ill add my .02 in that I consider a the velocity at witch the bullet ceases to expand the point it's totally in effective. If it's of sufficient caliber, weight, and construction to penetrate sufficiently, the point where it can't either hit what your shooting at or expand when it gets there is the effective range. Most popular hunting cartidges typically fall short of accuracy for the most part before the round slows to the point it won't expand. In the end with most modern .25 cal and up cartidges if you can hit it in the heart lung area, you can kill it.

 

[MCgunner]

The old classic minimum for rifle calibers, 1000, is a good guide. That don't mean I never killed a deer with less, just sayin'......