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Is there such a thing as overkill?

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by somerandomguy, Mar 4, 2013.

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  1. somerandomguy

    somerandomguy member

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    When you live in an apartment? I keep hearing people say "well 000 buck is too powerful for home defense! Get 00 buckshot!"

    Yeah, this thread again. I don't think there's such a thing as "too much stopping power". DISCUSS.
     
  2. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    All else being equal, 000 will penetrate through more barriers than 00. If you live in an apartment, hitting people through interior walls is a concern. 000 poses marginally greater concerns in this regard than 00.
     
  3. ezypikns

    ezypikns Member

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    In an apartment.........

    you could easily use number 6, 7 1/2, or even 8. Think about it. It's very close quarters. A faceful of number 8's will do nicely and you probably won't hurt your neighbors.
     
  4. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    It's a personal choice. And I prefer a rifle.

    Personally speaking, I've decided that anything over .458 Winchester Magnum is overkill for apartment defense.
     
  5. somerandomguy

    somerandomguy member

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    but it's still not much of a concern if you have a tight spread. The chances of one of those INCREDIBLY tiny pellets going through a plaster wall and killing one of your neighbors in their sleep or something are almost non-existant.
     
  6. Shanghai McCoy

    Shanghai McCoy Member

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    Rule #37: There is no "overkill". Just "open fire" and "reload"...
    ;)
     
  7. somerandomguy

    somerandomguy member

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    I like that rule. ;)
     
  8. Inebriated

    Inebriated Member

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    If it'll penetrate skin, it'll penetrate a wall or 5.

    Instead of reducing your load to ineffective options because you don't want to harm neighbors, my suggestion would be to figure out where you can "safely" fire, so as not to put anyone in danger (or, less danger). Find the lane you can fire, and have your HD plan to be to get to that spot, call police, and wait with whatever firearm you're using. If the intruder(s) cross your line of sight and try to come at you, you'll not have to worry so much about rule #4 (what's behind your target).

    And for the record, #4 Buck is about the minimum I'd recommend for buck. Not #4 shot, #4 Buck.
     
  9. Warp

    Warp Member

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    When I lived in an apartment my HD long gun was a 12 gauge that I kept loaded with 2 3/4" magnum 34 pellet #4 buck.
     
  10. mrvco

    mrvco Member

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    Drywall is cheap. Testing is easy.
     
  11. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    ??? 000 buck is actually slightly larger in diameter than a 9mm bullet. One of them alone is certainly capable of killing or grievously wounding someone.

    The same is true of 00. But it will lose steam just a little faster.
     
  12. Warp

    Warp Member

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    The 9mm is still probably going to penetrate further than the buckshot through walls, etc, though.
     
  13. somerandomguy

    somerandomguy member

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    Warp has a point, hell, I think most bullets will penetrate farther than 000 buckshot.
     
  14. Warp

    Warp Member

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    Sectional density is one explanation of why.

    The soft and deform-able nature of lead buckshot is another.

    Plus we have the box o truth. All we have to do is go look at what actually happens when somebody puts up walls and shoots them with stuff. Sounds fun too! :)
     
  15. Texan Scott

    Texan Scott Member

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    I have lived in crappy apartments. I have used a gun to ward off a half-naked home invader in the crappiest of said crappy apartments. The following are my completely subjective and unscientific opinions:

    1) If it won't go through sheet rock, I wouldn't trust it to stop a drug fueled felon. Use buckshot.

    2) Know your target AND WHAT'S BEHIND IT. Anyone who willfully disregards this rule because they're "SURE" the bullet/ shot won't overpenetrate and that there's "NO WAY" they could miss is a fool. I realize points 1 & 2 seem contradictory. Use buckshot.

    3) Talk to your landlord. Upgraded locks/ reinforced doorframes (at your expense, to remain with the apartment) are a good idea for you and a good deal for him. Working in permission to keep a small dog is good, too.

    4) If the worst happens, do what you have to do, no more, no less. Use buckshot. Pray.

    5) Which buckshot is best will not depend on the thickness of your wall, but the thickness of your intruder. This being hard to predict, your best bet is to use something with a number followed by BUCK.

    6) What do I use? I live in a house. I have revolvers. :scrutiny:
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
  16. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Bird shot is for birds.

    Yes, it can be lethal, but I certainly wouldn't count on it putting the threat down. Plenty of folks have survived close range blasts with birdshot loads. The tiny pellets just don't have the momentum to reliably penetrate to vitals on a human.

    I would trust nothing smaller than #2 for dealing with a serious threat. If over-penetration is a concern, think about using #4 buck. Still quite effective, but the 0.24" balls have less momentum than 00 or 000 buck. And there's a lot more of them.
     
  17. Warp

    Warp Member

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  18. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
  19. somerandomguy

    somerandomguy member

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    Right, and I'm making a claim against those because they are guesses too. I guarantee if you shot someone from a few feet away in the chest with 000 buck, you'd pretty much blow their shoulder blades onto the wall behind them (maybe even blow that person in half, depending on his size)...why would anyone want to take a chance and get a weaker load when your own life is on the line? The fact of the matter is that in an enclosed apartment setting, the chance of hitting an innocent THROUGH A WALL are still slim. I'm making the arguement that there is no such thing as "overkill", only "gets the job done".
     
  20. Warp

    Warp Member

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    You are relying a bit too much on Hollywood/video games and too little on real life.
     
  21. somerandomguy

    somerandomguy member

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    Probably, but my point still stands. :p
     
  22. Warp

    Warp Member

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    I do believe there is such a thing as "overkill", in that there is such a thing as 'too much gun', or too much penetration, when certain situations (such as living in an apartment) are taken into consideration.

    I do not believe that buckshot out of a 12 gauge shotgun is necessarily a problem/to always be avoided. It's up to each individual to decide, and I won't say that 000 buck is the wrong choice, even in an apartment.

    I might say that any shot that isn't buckshot probably isn't the right choice, and that anything that can be relied upon to stop an attacker is going to go through interior walls. I think we can agree to that.

    As somebody pointed out above...rule #4 applies, always.
     
  23. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    You are already breaking every law of gun safety by using a firearm in your apartment in the first place. Shooting in self defense is INHERENTLY UNSAFE. Most certainly for whoever you're shooting! The risk to bystanders can be reduced by choosing a round that will do the most with the fewest shots.
     
  24. somerandomguy

    somerandomguy member

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    Dumb question, but where are these rules that you guys keep talking about? I wasn't aware of any rules other than practice good gun safety like finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot.
     
  25. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

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    Just stick that double barrel boomstick out the window and let loose a couple blasts.
     
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