busterbrown
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is this 1851 for real ?
- Thread starter busterbrown
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Arkansas Paul
Member
Someone will come along with much more knowledge than I and either confirm or correct my initial reaction but here it is.
I'm seeing an original Navy that someone has tried to 'clean up' by buffing all the patina off of and in the process ruined a lot of it's collector value.
That frame and cylinder look like they've had the crap buffed out of them.
The lettering on the top of the barrel looks sharp though.
I'm seeing an original Navy that someone has tried to 'clean up' by buffing all the patina off of and in the process ruined a lot of it's collector value.
That frame and cylinder look like they've had the crap buffed out of them.
The lettering on the top of the barrel looks sharp though.
busterbrown
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trigger gaurd looks too thick.
there is no 36 cal on gaurd
screws are all wrong
grip too pristine
this looks like a very poorly antiqued replica
and whats with the ffl ? if this is an antique
there is no 36 cal on gaurd
screws are all wrong
grip too pristine
this looks like a very poorly antiqued replica
and whats with the ffl ? if this is an antique
BSA1
member
Yep it must be real since there is a picture of it.
However the seller doesn't say it was made by Colt only that it is a 1851 Navy Colt. Small trick in advertising.
"This was my grandfather's gun and he gave it to me" which has nothing at all to do what the gun is. His Granddad must of been a mighty old man if the seller is saying that his Granddad got it during the Civil War.
It doesn't look correct to me. One of the screws in the frame doesn't match the others. It is flat and doesn't have any patina on it. The grips do not have any wear marks or dings on them. The worn finish of the gun doesn't match the grips.
Yep I agree with busterbrown.
However the seller doesn't say it was made by Colt only that it is a 1851 Navy Colt. Small trick in advertising.
"This was my grandfather's gun and he gave it to me" which has nothing at all to do what the gun is. His Granddad must of been a mighty old man if the seller is saying that his Granddad got it during the Civil War.
It doesn't look correct to me. One of the screws in the frame doesn't match the others. It is flat and doesn't have any patina on it. The grips do not have any wear marks or dings on them. The worn finish of the gun doesn't match the grips.
Yep I agree with busterbrown.
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Fingers McGee
Member
It's got all of the characteristics of a middle fourth model 1851 - that has had the hell - and most of the patina - scrubbed out of it & has a few wrong screws in it.
BSA1
member
Mismatched non-original screws , no finish, no dings or wear on the grips (maybe original that have been sanded down).
I say this guy is a >amen< used car salesman.
Noz
Member
Buster these folks are ripping on your gun with no reason or proof. Don't worry about them. I couldn't buy it if I wanted it but I would have to have had it in my hand before any negotiations could begin.
desidog
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...didn't quite buff out that triangle so commonly found on Italian copies....
I think the barrel may be genuine Colt, but the trigger guard, frame, scene-less cylinder, and screws are not.
Someone definitely went out of their with the serial #'s; it's hard to find that font... reminds me of the (legit) 1860 on GB with the repro shoulder stock they'd stamped with the matching serial; but the "1" didn't have the base the Colt font had...
plumberroy
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Doesn't look right to me for an original
Crawdad1
Member
No refund or exchange and no ability to inspect it up close. And as Desidog pointed out a suspicious looking mark on the frame. No I wouldn't touch that revolver.
"It has not been cleaned or messed with."
Funny how the cylinder roll engraving manged to vanish all by itself. Same as the frame markings that disappeared in the camera flash. And the screws messed with themselves. And the barrel was heavily buffed and blued. And the rammer has some color left, but the frame has none. And the butt (backstrap) serial number is not shown.
I would have to see a lot more and better pictures before even considering spending $2600 or anywhere near it on that gun.
(In fairness, he just says it was his grandfather's gun; he doesn't claim his grandfather took it off Robert E. Lee at Appomattox.)
Jim
Funny how the cylinder roll engraving manged to vanish all by itself. Same as the frame markings that disappeared in the camera flash. And the screws messed with themselves. And the barrel was heavily buffed and blued. And the rammer has some color left, but the frame has none. And the butt (backstrap) serial number is not shown.
I would have to see a lot more and better pictures before even considering spending $2600 or anywhere near it on that gun.
(In fairness, he just says it was his grandfather's gun; he doesn't claim his grandfather took it off Robert E. Lee at Appomattox.)
Jim
Tommygunn
Member
I've seen old Colts with very light engraving due to age & wear ... but the only non-engraved cylinders I've seen are on modern repros. Palmetto is (or was?) famous for this.
But there might also have been other makers that did not eengrave theirs.
I have a Uberti repro of a Colt type that was a Confederate copy which doesn't have engraving on the cylinder ... but that's because the original also lacked engraving.
I think this gun is a modern copy ....just my opinion and worth exactly what you guys paid for it.
The check's in the mail, right?
Ya, right. (Just kiddin' )
But there might also have been other makers that did not eengrave theirs.
I have a Uberti repro of a Colt type that was a Confederate copy which doesn't have engraving on the cylinder ... but that's because the original also lacked engraving.
I think this gun is a modern copy ....just my opinion and worth exactly what you guys paid for it.
The check's in the mail, right?
Ya, right. (Just kiddin' )
mungojerry
Member
"This firearm must ship to a FFL dealer in your state or you can come to pick up"
That means its made after 1899???
Don't bash me i'm from the UK!!!
That means its made after 1899???
Don't bash me i'm from the UK!!!
Crawdad1
Member
The barrel has the correct Colt stamping on it: "ADDRESS COL. SAML COLT NEW-YORK U.S. AMERICA - (101,000 - 215,348) and serial number range. I don't think Second or Third Generation Colts ever used that specific stamp, I think the Second and Third Generation Colts used "ADDRESS COL. SAML COLT NEW-YORK CITY" stamping.
So, it could be an original barrel place on an Italian repro frame. That's my guess.
So, it could be an original barrel place on an Italian repro frame. That's my guess.
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dickydalton
Member
My C Series 1851 is stamped: - ADDRESS SAML COLT New-York CITY -
No COL.. The dash before and after are wedged like arrows pointing left and right.
A 3rd Generation 1860 is stamped: ADDRESS COL. SAML COLT NEW-YORK U.S. AMERICA Without the arrows before and after.
Crawdad1
Member
Both of my Sig Series a '49 Pocket and a '62 Police are marked "ADDRESS COL. SAML COLT NEW-YORK U.S. AMERICA" without the dashes at the beginning and end. I don't have a 'Sig Series '51 Navy to look at so possible an original barrel made to fit an Italian Repro frame?
My 1848 Colt baby dragoon has the usual frame colt markings, barrel markings and every single major part serial numbered to the frame including the wedge and grip . If it doesnt have at least the major components numbered then its either a parts gun or a gun built from an Italian model. The screw pitch on the screws will tell you everything you need to know..
Crawdad1
Member
I agree buy the trouble is you have no inspection period or option to return it. There is just to many questions regarding this Colt especially at that price.
Anybody have an original and a replica to do some side by side comparisons?
Eh. State laws vary but black powder and antiques don't have a whole lot of restrictions compared to modern firearms. A black powder replica in most states can be sold and shipped to an 18 year old purchaser's doorstep (I don't know if 18 is a legally mandated minimum, I suspect it is but I was 19 when I got into black powder ).
On gunbroker, a lot of sellers will only sell a black powder handgun to someone 21 years of age. Some will require an FFL, although to my knowledge only New Jersey and maybe California require an FFL be involved for a black powder purchase. Modern inline rifles/pistols/shotguns being excluded as the receivers are based on modern firearms.
If this was a cartridge-firing revolver, then yes, something made in 1899 would require an FFL and something made in or before 1898 would not. Generally.
Eh. State laws vary but black powder and antiques don't have a whole lot of restrictions compared to modern firearms. A black powder replica in most states can be sold and shipped to an 18 year old purchaser's doorstep (I don't know if 18 is a legally mandated minimum, I suspect it is but I was 19 when I got into black powder
). On gunbroker, a lot of sellers will only sell a black powder handgun to someone 21 years of age. Some will require an FFL, although to my knowledge only New Jersey and maybe California require an FFL be involved for a black powder purchase. Modern inline rifles/pistols/shotguns being excluded as the receivers are based on modern firearms.
If this was a cartridge-firing revolver, then yes, something made in 1899 would require an FFL and something made in or before 1898 would not. Generally.
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