Is this 300 Win too much for me?

[tacdad]

I would listen to the guy in the shop. It sounds like he had your best interest in mind. If it is your first rifle then YES it is "to much gun". Starting off on a large caliber like the 300 wm will cause you to develop what we like to call "bad habits". This includes flinching, improper breathing, faster heart rate because your to worried about recoil, improper shouldering of the rifle, not enjoying yourself because you woke up the next morning black and blue down your shoulder and arm, improper trigger control due to the worry about the recoil.......shall I go on? Start with something like a 308 win or 30-06 or even a 270. For a beginner these are smart choices. A wise man once said..."You can't run before you crawl".

 

[MachIVshooter]

Starting off on a large caliber like the 300 wm will cause you to develop what we like to call "bad habits". This includes flinching, improper breathing, faster heart rate because your to worried about recoil, improper shouldering of the rifle, not enjoying yourself because you woke up the next morning black and blue down your shoulder and arm, improper trigger control due to the worry about the recoil.......shall I go on?

Are any of you saying these things paying attention to the platform? It's not a 7 pound sporter; It's a 13 pound rifle with a highly effective muzzle break.

These arguments are akin to "1,200 ft/lbs of torque is too much power for street use" True, if you're talking about a car........but not in a semi tractor.

 

[Damon555]

No, it sounds like he is talking down to the OP and has no clue what the AR-30 is. A 10 year old girl could comfortably fire that .

The OP never even mentions the AR30....

The gun store guy is right. No need for a 300 mag for 1000 yard shooting. Get something smaller and learn how to shoot it.

 

[TurtlePhish]

The OP never even mentions the AR30....

It did before, looks like it was edited out.

 

[jnoble87]

These arguments are akin to "1,200 ft/lbs of torque is too much power for street use" True, if you're talking about a car........but not in a semi tractor.

LMAO! You're crazy.......You can never have too much torque, hehehe.

 

[Kachok]

The 300 win is too much/not needed for punching paper. You can match the external ballistics of a 180gr 300 win with a 123gr LS 6.5x55/Creedmore/x47 Lapua/260 rem they buck the wind every bit as well (.547BC) shoot every bit as flat (3000+fps) they burn alot less powder, are easier on barrels, and the best part is that the recoil is not just manageable it is actually pleasant even in featherweight bolt action rifles. So no the 300 win mag gets a big thumbs down for you, and if you did absolutly have to have a big belted mag the 7mm Rem Mag would still be a better choice (not by much though) Now if you wanted to shoot trophy elk across a canyon the 300 win ROCKS, but it is just a waste for punching paper. Other good long range paper punchers are the 243, 308, 7-08, and 6mm PPC but they pale in comparison to the 6.5s, especaly the king of long range the 6.5-284 which is the benchmark that all 1,000yd cartrages are judged by.

 

[Bushpilot]

No, it sounds like he is talking down to the OP and has no clue what the AR-30 is. A 10 year old girl could comfortably fire that rifle.

MachIVshooter, I know what an AR 30 is and wasn't talking down to the OP, unlike the way you referred to me with your "no clue" remark. The OP simply asked for advice and I tried to give it.

I don't know how you found my opinion to be "talking down" to the OP, unless it was simply that I disagreed with you?:

Listen to the guy at the shop, he sounds like he knows what he is talking about and has your best interests in mind. You will be happier, richer and probably a better shot sooner with something else. Could you learn to shoot with it? Maybe. But not the best choice.

Yes MachIVshooter, a 10 year old girl could fire that rifle but there is a BIG difference between firing a rifle and learning how to shoot one, esp. at long range. For the last 20 yrs. I've worked during my free time in what is probably the best gun shop in my area. We get guys new to shooting in all the time that want to start out with rifles or handguns that are larger or ill-suited for the purpose that they have in mind. Whether you agree with it or not, the prevailing wisdom is not starting off with too large a gun that may lead to bad shooting habits and less success. And that’s what we do, even if as frequently happens, it means selling them a less expensive gun. Plus, another factor with most people is the extra cost of the ammo involved in learning to shoot with a larger than necessary cartridge that may limit the amount of practice a new shooter requires. I think the OP should appreciate the guy at the shop not trying to sell him a bigger, more expensive rifle then needed. He is someone the OP should trust and go back to because not all shops are that ethical.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I know what an AR 30 is and wasn't talking down to the OP, unlike the way you referred to me with your "no clue" remark. The OP simply asked for advice and I tried to give it.

I don't know how you found my opinion to be "talking down" to the OP, unless it was simply that I disagreed with you?:

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that the comment was directed toward you; I feel that the guy at the gun shop counter was being condescending. It's a common occurance, though I don't know why anyone would treat their customers that way.

I think the OP should appreciate the guy at the shop not trying to sell him a bigger, more expensive rifle then needed. He is someone the OP should trust and go back to because not all shops are that ethical.

Yes, I'm sure it had nothing to do with .300 WM AR-30s being difficult to get and having a slim profit margin. "Oh, that's too much gun for ya. But here, why don't you have a look at this nice 700PSS I happen to have in stock........"

Maybe not, but I've dealt with my fair share of FFL's who don't like to mess with special order guns and will try to talk you out of them or give you the run-around so they can make a sale on something they stock.

We weren't there and don't know how the conversation went down, so assuming he had the customer's best interest in mind is as much speculation as my feeling that it had more to do with ego and profit margin and/or cluelessness about the rifle.

LMAO! You're crazy.......You can never have too much torque, hehehe.

Oh, I agree. But I have learned that there is a practical limit for street use. If you can't get the power to the ground, it's useless. Even with spool, fat DOT slicks and 4 link, anything more than about 500 HP & 700 ft/lbs is just wheelspin in a ~3,000 lb car.

 

[Sav .250]

If I were you ,I`d do some more home work on the issue. Forums aside.

 

[Bushpilot]

MachIV If I misunderstood where your remark was directed then you have my apologies...

 

[sage5907]

Bushpilot, my neighbor's brother had no experience shooting rifles. Two weeks ago a gun shop owner sold him a Savage 338 Lapua for long distance shooting. The rifle, scope and accessories cost him over $3,000. Ammo is about $75 a box. The first trip to the range the bolt handle broke off. When my neighbor told me about the deal I couldn't quit laughing. The unsuspecting buyer definitely needed some good advice. BW

 

[dubbleA]

It's just me but there are numerous choices out there that would be better suited for LR than a AR-30 300 win mag. Like mentioned above, do some more homework.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

I am of the mindset that if I want to become good at something, I need to practice and might as well have the best tool for the job.

What do you all think? Am I over reacting, or was the guy right?

Just what is the job? Paper? Steel? Tasty animals? Bad guys?

For the first two, .300 Win Mag is overkill. Targets don't take much energy to kill. Win Mag is really more of a big game cartridge in truth. If you don't need to hurl a heavy chunk of lead into a Moose, why burn so much powder and money per shot?

What calibers do you own now that shooting at 500-600 yards (you did say you are just starting out at long range) is not feasible? .223 with match bullets will do that just fine at those distances. As you start looking to shooting 1000yd, you will want more caliber, but even then there are many cartridges .30 cal and under that don't have magnum in their name which will do the job quite well.

To be honest, if I was looking for a 1000yd rifle, I'd be after .308 or 6.5 Grendel or something similar.

 

[sixgunner455]

You know, Dave Tubb wins 1000 yard matches with a .243.

You don't need a .300 to shoot that far. As someone has said a number of times, you can't buy skill and targets - you have to get out on the range and make holes in stuff to develop skill. Once you have the skill, you can maximize your tools.

Getting the skillset you want will require a lot of time on the range and a lot of ammo. I would choose a more economical cartridge to work with. Use a .223 out to 500yards+. Use a .243, .260, 7-08, or .308 out to 1000yd. If you are shooting factory ammo, use a .308 and buy Federal Gold Medal Match. It's not really cheap, but .308 FGMM is probably the least expensive match ammo you're going to find over the counter.

The ammo cost will completely dwarf the weapon and scope cost in short order, if you are serious about this.

Once you are where you want to be at 1000, if you want to go further, then it would make sense to look at a heavier cartridge.

 

[nathan]

Theres more to hitting targets 1000 yds away than just having a .300 WM. The skills of marksmanship is important and a lot of time at the range. Good luck.

 

[Damon555]

Sorry Mach.....I guess I was a little late to the party!

 

[beatledog7]

Is a _______ too much gun for me? If you're asking an on-line forum, then it probably is.

 

[thump_rrr]

Bushpilot, my neighbor's brother had no experience shooting rifles. Two weeks ago a gun shop owner sold him a Savage 338 Lapua for long distance shooting. The rifle, scope and accessories cost him over $3,000. Ammo is about $75 a box. The first trip to the range the bolt handle broke off. When my neighbor told me about the deal I couldn't quit laughing. The unsuspecting buyer definitely needed some good advice. BW

What does a bolt handle breaking off have to do with starting off on a caliber that is too powerful and expensive to become proficient at long range shooting?

I own the 10BA (308) and I'm currently negotiating to purchase a 110BA (.338LM) from someone who only put 20 rounds through it before realizing that it was the wrong rifle for a beginner.

Savage will stand behind the bolt handle and if the handle broke because it was dropped or hit a new one costs $85.00 at Midway USA.

I have a friend who owns the 110BA along with a Sako TRG-42 and both rifles shoot virtually identical group sizes with their respective custom loads.

To the OP my question is: Do you own any other precision rifles in smaller calibers?

 

[sage5907]

trumph, my point about the bolt handle was that the gun shop owner sold the guy a rifle that was ill suited for his needs. The caliber was too large for a beginner and the rifle design was ill suited for a guy who works in the oil field and the smallest tool he uses is a 24 inch pipe wrench. He has so much torque in his hands that he can break a pair of water pump pliars, and the bolt handle was so long it gave him too much mechanical advantage. BW

 

[BoilerUP]

the rifle design was ill suited for a guy who works in the oil field and the smallest tool he uses is a 24 inch pipe wrench. He has so much torque in his hands that he can break a pair of water pump pliars, and the bolt handle was so long it gave him too much mechanical advantage.

While its entirely possible there was a flaw in the metal that caused failure...there's absolutely no reason to slam a bolt down so hard you risk breaking the handle.

Brutus needs to use a little finesse with his weapons...

 

[x_wrench]

you are talking about shooting 500-1000 yards, so i am assuming you want to TARGET SHOOT, not hunt. a 300 mag BENCH REST gun that weighs 12-14 pounds will recoil much less than an 8 pound sporter rifle. a muzzle break will also help. if you are going to compertition shoot, you are almost going to have to reload. and if your reloading, you can download the 300 win mag down as far as you want. my 10 year old shoots mine with reduced loads. and it is a sporter rifle. if you buy a sporter 300 mag off the shelf, and try to shoot at 500 yards with it right off the bat, you will most likely develop a flinch after about 3 shots. probably the best gun you could start with is a 6mm br gun, made for competition. fly over to http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html and have a look around. it would be very hard to go wrong with one of those.

 

[dubbleA]

While its entirely possible there was a flaw in the metal that caused failure...there's absolutely no reason to slam a bolt down so hard you risk breaking the handle.

It's not a question if it's possible, Savage bolt handles are casted and can & do have flaws/ voids/inclusions in which weakens them.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Is this 300 Win too much for me?

What do you all think? Am I over reacting, or was the guy right?

Adding to what beatledog said, if you are asking the same question on multiple online forums, and you are, then it probably is. You obviously don't know enough about the caliber to be making an informed purchase decision.

While its entirely possible there was a flaw in the metal that caused failure...there's absolutely no reason to slam a bolt down so hard you risk breaking the handle.

Aw now, you don't always have to slam them down. Rem 788 carbines have a history of your bolt hand balls breaking off under normal use. With that said, you should not need a lot of force to close a bolt over a cartridge. If you need a mallet, to stand up so that you can lean down on the bolt with your body weight, somebody else to hold the rifle while you try to close the bolt, a cheater wrench, or anything much beyond the strength of an 8 year old girl, then something ain't right and you should reconsider forcing the bolt closed.

Not trying to be sexist with the 8 year old girl concept. I have daughters. This sort of problem came up when one was with me and shooting and she was 8. So that became a sort of unscientific analog working standard.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Not trying to be sexist with the 8 year old girl concept.

Nothing sexist about stating the obvious fact that an 8 year old female does not have much upper body strength.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Nothing sexist about stating the obvious fact that an 8 year old female does not have much upper body strength.

HA!! I sooooooo beg to differ there. I have an 8 year old daughter and trust me, she is FAR from a weakling. Just ask the boys in this neighborhood She has already "educated" a couple in how to treat a young lady with respect